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Re: Descending skills / how to gain confidence? [ejd_mil] [ In reply to ]
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ejd_mil wrote:
Adult onset cyclist here.
My bike handling skills (esp descending and managing rough roads) are lagging my cyclr fitness by a healthy margin. Furthermore, My confidence has taken very big step backs after my first and second bike accident (second one involving several nights in the ICU).

For those of you that had relatively modest bike handling skills and/or bike confidence, how did you go about improving? What worked? What didn't ?

Thanks

Had a Mexican teammate that ultimately lost his spot on the team because he couldn’t descend well enough to stay with us on group rides or the break away in major races. The team directors had said if they had a world tour budget they would have paid for him to ride in the back of a moto through the mountains to get a feel for it. I always imagined poor Luis strapped to the back of a moto GP bike as they flew down some pass in Colorado. Anyway if you know anyone that you trust with a moto that might be an option to try.
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Re: Descending skills / how to gain confidence? [ejd_mil] [ In reply to ]
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Lose your fear of death, you’ll immediately get better after, or perish
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Re: Descending skills / how to gain confidence? [ejd_mil] [ In reply to ]
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ejd_mil wrote:
Confidence = greater enjoyment and greater safety

Eventually confidence will mean greater speeds with even higher safety.

That is my reasoning.
Confidence can make you safer if it avoids panic based errors. However, it can equally make you much less safe, if it's misplaced. It's desirable that your confidence be contingent on your ability and the risks at hand. It's pretty clear how this characteristic has evolved in all intelligent creatures, and I don't think it's something we should aim to overcome in most circumstances, although there are of course exceptions.

You haven't said what caused your previous crashes. If these were due to a lack of skill, then it's appropriate to be hesitant about fast descents unless you've addressed the skill deficit.

Descend more, and don't try to go faster unless you're reasonably comfortable doing so. Experience will produce skill, appropriate confidence, and hopefully a gradual speed increase that does not put you at undue risk.

I know americans have a different relationship with "confidence" to the rest of the world, but surely skill is the goal, not unfounded confidence?
Last edited by: Ai_1: Nov 16, 20 5:54
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Re: Descending skills / how to gain confidence? [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Is this in general, or for mountain passes?

In general, I would say when people say saddle time.......I would like to clarify. For me, it boiled down to creating some segments private just for me that were in town that I could repeat. If it was a free ride workout, just climb up the 3 min or so and go down. Try the same ones. Straight down, curvy, etc....

Get confidence riding the same route. Then, mix it up after that.

Also, if you're going down some stuff you haven't ridden before. Do recon. On the drive to the mountains, take the car on the road. Use Google street view. Get a Garmin Varia radar so you don't have any vehicular surprises. Etc...
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Re: Descending skills / how to gain confidence? [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
Is this in general, or for mountain passes?

In general, I would say when people say saddle time.......I would like to clarify. For me, it boiled down to creating some segments private just for me that were in town that I could repeat. If it was a free ride workout, just climb up the 3 min or so and go down. Try the same ones. Straight down, curvy, etc....

Get confidence riding the same route. Then, mix it up after that.

Also, if you're going down some stuff you haven't ridden before. Do recon. On the drive to the mountains, take the car on the road. Use Google street view. Get a Garmin Varia radar so you don't have any vehicular surprises. Etc...
Descending only on descents that are familiar, or shallow, or smooth, or straight, or in perfect conditions, won't develop your skills terribly well for all of the other circumstances you might encounter.
Variety is the spice of life!

Unless you're on a closed road, you can never assume you know what's ahead. Even on descents I know well I hold back a bit approaching bends, since I don't know if there's an obstacle I can't see yet. That limits the benefit of doing recon! I've often done 80km/h+ on descents I don't know, but much less on familiar roads, because of blind bends, etc. I don't use a Varia myself. I kind of like the idea, but at the same time I wonder is it wise to get out of the habit of looking over my shoulder whenever it's likely to matter!?
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Re: Descending skills / how to gain confidence? [ejd_mil] [ In reply to ]
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ejd_mil wrote:
Thanks, appreciate. I think i actually read your article several years ago!


What drills would you practice in the parking lot? I have done figure 'S' and i found them quite helpful. I tried cone pickups but was thoroughly incapable of doing that... track stands - ditto, not a chance. Would love to know what to practice / drills to do...


Mainly cornering - some by steering and keeping the bike pretty upright, and others with more leaning/counterteering to see the difference.

Then trying to go faster and faster leaning/countersteering.

Also sometimes coasting through a slalom course in different ways - no hands, then with hands but butt off the seat, then with hands and sitting but feet off the pedals. All to get a better understanding of how the bike handles.

But the main thing was cornering in controlled situation, within our comfort zone, pushing skill/speed incrementally.


http://www.jt10000.com/
Last edited by: jt10000: Nov 18, 20 13:38
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Re: Descending skills / how to gain confidence? [Ohio_Roadie] [ In reply to ]
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One thing I don't see others commenting is trying to hold the horizontal tube with your knees. That gives the bike more stability, reduces vibration and shimmies.

As a side comment which I do not recommend to you at this stage is that I found that after overcoming initial fears, I find descending sitting on the top tube is not only faster, but also feels safer once you become familiar. One good thing in that position is that you can grab the down tube with your knees much better than the horizontal tube, at least on my Scott Foil
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Re: Descending skills / how to gain confidence? [ejd_mil] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know what part of the world you live in, but here in the cold part, every person I road ride with has gotten to be better bike handlers after doing some fat biking.

Keeping your body weight as low as possible is key to going downhill fast, and squaring your shoulders to the apex of the turn.

A session of pro carts (when the world reopens) would be a good way to take a lot of corners as fast as possible just to see the set up, apex and exit of a lot of turns.

Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes
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Re: Descending skills / how to gain confidence? [ejd_mil] [ In reply to ]
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Mountain biking helped my handling skills, it's a lot more fun for me so I rarely ride on the road anymore.
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Re: Descending skills / how to gain confidence? [jt10000] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for that.

If you don't mind, a couple more questions on the turning:
Did you do these practice sessions on grass with a cross / gravel bike?
Did you do any particular setup (eg setting up cones) or particular terrain (flat or hills)?

Your post is giving me some good ideas on what to do / where to practice...

Thanks again

Eric
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