The continual use of the terms cheater and mechanical doping are getting super old. The shoes ARE legal. So use what's legal. Using those terms in relation to other forms of doping isn't allowed - I don't think posters here should be able to throw those terms around for the shoes either. It's simply and blatantly NOT that. And stop with the going back and restricting everything nonsense. Why don't we do that with bikes? Why don't we regulate wetsuits even better to make them more even? I mean...life isn't fair.

Some here say they want to go all the way back and it's silly. I was like...13, maybe 14, when I got my Scott DH bars in 1988 or 89. What a fun, fantastic game changer. Why not make the races slower? And most of the studies coming out are not that the carbon plated shoes are springy mechanisms, I believe, but it's the interface between substantially better foams and the carbon plate that is increasing the economical benefit of the shoes. And, weren't they originally designed also to decrease injury for Kipchoge et al to be able to train more? That's the biggest takeaway I have from triathlete's reviews of the shoe - they feel less beat up after an IM run. That benefits the sport I think. Ben Hoffman is running in them, but ran 2:38 in IMSA in the Peg Turbo (zoom x foam) v 2:43 Kona and 2:36 IMFL. Not 90-120 seconds per 10k type differences.

Anyway - at your level and mine, we should be concentrating on being the best we can be. I don't worry about how many P5Discs finish ahead of my P2 with mechanical, I give my all and see what happens. The carbon (or lack of) in my shoe does nothing to distract from that.

Out of interest - how are you going to get the shoes from before you were injured in order to compare?

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DFRU - Detta Family Racing Unit...the kids like it and we all get out and after it...gotta keep the fam involved!

Hey just to be clear, if it is legal, we should use the equipment that is allowed. It is up to IAAF or FINA or UCI or ITU to decide if it materially changes their sports to ban that gear (or not).

As for shoes before I had my disc injuries, you should see the running shoe warehouse in my basement of only partially used shoes. I probably would have to buy no new shoes for the next 10 years if I wanted to live off old ones, so that's not a problem! But once rehab further progresses, I will be willing to try some of the newer shoes assuming they fit and they don't make things bad.

Technology, including shoes, nutrition, training, and doping, increases performance. Records are not set on level ground.

yikes wrote:

Did I miss something here? The guy isn't claiming a world record or anything. He is going for a PB. Its not official, he has a pacer, not on a track, shoes - whatever - who cares! ...

You must be new here...

Not new by a longshot - but sometimes I do shake my head!

What IS interesting for me is what footwear would be faster at a 10,000m at the track. Standard track spikes for max "grab + pull + push off" or the new gen of springy shoes.

Would Murray be faster at a track with spikes on or at the track with Nike springy shoes? I am guessing he would be slower in spikes.

Must be frustrating for you to race tris with a steel road bike sans aero bars.

out of frustration, I did do some races on a steel fixed gear bike, and beat people with their tri super bikes. Still they stick to those bikes. Feels like fast and furious of 20 years ago. People buying bodykits and fart cans to dress up their honda civic. Or someone who is a good driver in their stock car but a poor driver purchasing an exotic car with automatic shifting just to beat them.

Well, me thinks you are not as good as you think you are or make it seem you are ;-), congrats on beating a few slow riders on superbikes, did you win your age group?


BTW about one of your "arguments":, just saw Kristian Blumenfelt's video on the 10,000 m, and he was actually using the Alphafly's so there goes your argument that he had a bad performance because he wasn't wearing them. He ran a 29:57 in "super shoes" just a bad day since I am certain he could do better. If you really believe Blu could only run a 32 m 10,000 on spikes, you are simply delusional or don't really

Don't get me wrong, the shoes are faster than old school racing flats. In my view the biggest game changer, is that they allow runners who couldn't handle old school racing flats to be able to get the racing flat advantage (which going from heavy trainers, its a huge difference), and my guess it that for someone your level this seems to be really bothering you.

you are fighting the wrong issue here. TECH is good. Cheaters are bad.
Everyone uses tech, some more then others.
Cheater break rules others are not willing to break.

If everyone get a boost, fair fight,
If only one guy gets to dope or motor, not far.
If you choose to ride a fixie that ok it isn't cheating anyone but you . We are ok with that.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

51.3km and one hour later, Lionel is cool with riding a fixie :-) Now he wants to try it at altitude! OK OK, sorry I had to have a bit of fun with the fixie theme

 Eye roll , yes, now would he make that choose in kona??? No, because he would only be hurting himself.

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

Hey it was in jest. I put the smiley face there.

Kristian wanted to do 28:00. So he was very disappointed. He showed up to a meet in the clown shoes looking like triathlete vs everyone else in track shoes and regular run gear

As for murray how can we say this effort is his PB? if he did this 10k on a downhill slope with normal shoes and hit the same number, is it his PB? A PB only counts if the effort was better than previous effort on similar course and using similar gear. Otherwise this is his "vaporfly PB".

Give me a break. A PB just a personal effort. Where is there some rule that says Pb has to be some sanctioned event. Is your PB in an Ironman legit? Did you race the exact same course? Are you really certain the the distance in one was exactly the same as the distance in another?

The guy is killing time during COVID and trying to get some visibility for his sponsors or trying to get some new ones by getting some web hits. Get over it ... nobody claimed it is an IAAF event.

..
.
The ST world needs more smiley faces as this thread is almost as silly as the Gwen thread which is making me thank all of the worlds random deities that my father said no to our family moving to the USA when I was a kid.

I know it was that's why I said yes slowly and rolled my eyes.

Actually that may have been your best post ever as it was short enough for me to want to finish reading it. Well done.

Keep it up and you may go place on the slowtwitch forum!!!

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Technique will always last longer then energy production. Improve biomechanics, improve performance.
http://Www.anthonytoth.ca, triathletetoth@twitter

Nothing to worry about. Maybe I just need to go to the USPTO and patent an inverse piezolectric effect shoe where by an electrical stimulus will create a mechanical output on every push off. Then you can just charge your shoes before you race and have your push off force magnitied by the motor that perfectly times pulses of dischaged electric conversion to carbon plate push just when you need it.

Actually just by putting this in the public domain I may have made it prior art in case Nike gets any smart ideas haha :-)...or maybe it is already at USPTO and they beat us to it.

But however you cut it, if any shoes make running more comfortable for everyone, then it has its place in sport if it increases participation. Whether it is allowed in competition or not, that's another story, but if it is, it is free for everyone to use.

Have you seen the video and Strava file? I know you are in a crusade to undermine his effort, but it looks legit to me. Flat loops on easy to measure roads, only criticism was that he finished about 300 m from where he started. The dude disclosed a relatively slow (for his level) 400 m swim LCM time in one of his videos so doesn't seem like the kind of guy who "edits" his performances. I would argue that most top triathletes aren't. Of all top triathletes who have tried a fast 10k, he has been the fastest so far.

im not debating the course length or terrain. my point was that these type of shoes make the effort similar to a downhill run

He would use the next gen spikes Nike has created, that were used for the latest string of track world records.

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Group Eleven – Websites for Athletes / mikael.racing / @mstaer

The bad thing about those shoes ist that now, even running threads turn into gear threads.

Heeeeelp!!!

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10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

Just insane I think he was running faster than my best sprint and for a full 30 min without breaking a wince or a breath. Just truly impressive.

Also even more impressive is the usual ST DB replies of those in here saying dumb shit like " iLl wAit aNd ReSeRvE mY juDgemEnT uNtil ItsoNa TraAkC DUrrrr and iTs tHE ShOesSSS. You people need a freaking labotomy are mostly everything wrong with humanity.

dude literally ran it twice as fast as me, i'd could hope and with to be a 10th faster. But yeah the few of you downplaying this because you only bang 10s are the reason why many in this sport have a bad rep

You all think ST is bad for that?

Pshhhh. Go over to Bikeforums. It seems filled with old people who used to ride bikes but now loathe bikes and like to talk about Walmart bikes and kit and talk shit about modern bikes and kit. Well sonny, gotta fit my 10th mirror and 20th clamp on hand rest on this thing so I can bang out 13mph on the greenway on my e-bike recumbent shit thing and make topics angry about 11spd bikes and carbon.

Geesh those guys are cranky worthless old men half the time.

Marius Vedvik, a real runner, was also wearing Vaporflys in that track race.

Sondre Moen wanted to run in Vaporflys for his european hour record. But they then got banned on the track. So this is/was not a triathlete thing. A lot of runners started to choose vaporflys/alphaflys over spikes because the shoes are so crazy fast.

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10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40