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Is the "deferral waiver" new?
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I'm new to IM. I registered for a cancelled event, transferred to another event which was also cancelled. Now I'm finishing my registration for the second transfer.

I saw the "Deferral Waiver": As a deferral athlete, I agree I am NOT entitled to a registration refund (partial or full). Additionally, I am no longer eligible to defer my race entry a subsequent year.

I don't recall this with my first transfer. Is this saying that if the third race I transfer to is cancelled, I'm no longer allowed to transfer it again to the next year? Or is it saying that I can't choose to defer it (which I didn't know I could anyway)?
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Re: Is the "deferral waiver" new? [LEBoyd] [ In reply to ]
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I'm involved with a bit of a dispute with IM right now... I originally deferred to a very late 70.3 for 2021 and now, due to my wedding, I am highly unlikely to be able to race it. I contacted ironman and got a "too bad, so sad" gotcha response, in which the representative cited the "no deferral" waiver.

Instagram | floathammerholdon | BSC Multisport

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Re: Is the "deferral waiver" new? [cloy] [ In reply to ]
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cloy wrote:
I'm involved with a bit of a dispute with IM right now... I originally deferred to a very late 70.3 for 2021 and now, due to my wedding, I am highly unlikely to be able to race it. I contacted ironman and got a "too bad, so sad" gotcha response, in which the representative cited the "no deferral" waiver.

And you will lose (as you should). The only reason you can't do the deferred race is due to a personal choice of yours. Everyone is well aware of IM's long standing, well documented and much maligned no refund, no deferral policy (absent the pandemic related concerns).
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Re: Is the "deferral waiver" new? [logella] [ In reply to ]
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I see your point; however, in a situation where I was offered to pick from a lot of 7 races, none at all were appealing nor would I have signed up for them but for the free deferral, it's a bit of a bummer.

Instagram | floathammerholdon | BSC Multisport

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Re: Is the "deferral waiver" new? [logella] [ In reply to ]
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logella wrote:
And you will lose (as you should).

...and the fact that people accept this piece of shit policy is exactly why IM have no incentive to change it.
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Re: Is the "deferral waiver" new? [el gato] [ In reply to ]
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I wasn't trying to start any arguments or anything.

I was only trying to find out whether this was new and what it means.
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Re: Is the "deferral waiver" new? [el gato] [ In reply to ]
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el gato wrote:
logella wrote:

And you will lose (as you should).


...and the fact that people accept this piece of shit policy is exactly why IM have no incentive to change it.

As it should be. The free market determines policy. Races are full with the policy. Frankly if IM didn't have the policy of no deferrals, some athletes would make up an excuse to defer because they they didn't train enough or the weather was going to be bad etc... The vast majority of athletes understand why the policy is necessary, therefore it remains

However, I do have sympathy for those who are getting caught up in this "perfect storm".
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Re: Is the "deferral waiver" new? [Calvin386] [ In reply to ]
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Calvin386 wrote:

As it should be. The free market determines policy. Races are full with the policy. Frankly if IM didn't have the policy of no deferrals, some athletes would make up an excuse to defer because they they didn't train enough or the weather was going to be bad etc... The vast majority of athletes understand why the policy is necessary, therefore it remains

However, I do have sympathy for those who are getting caught up in this "perfect storm".

Sorry, but the premise of "capitalism-driven customer service" is just silly. Good companies understand the value of customer-friendly policies, even if they can get away with less. This is just laziness. For example, Vineman (before being purchased by IM) had a waiting list, and had a partial refund policy up to a certain date. As people dropped, their spot was filled off the waiting list. This gave people flexibility, and ensured that nearly everyone that wanted in got in. That's not terribly complicated, nor does it really cost anything to implement.
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Re: Is the "deferral waiver" new? [LEBoyd] [ In reply to ]
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I can't answer for sure but I took advantage of the deferral program for IMSR 2019 and when I signed up for 2020, it was made clear I could not defer again, so I imagine that is the same thing that is happening here (even as I believe all the deferrals this year should not really be counted against that program). Where I would get uncomfortable with it is if they decide to hold events before a vaccine is widely available and if you decide you aren't comfortable with the risks, whether event or travel related, that they are barring you from deferring again. Of course, we won't know any of that until they actually happen.

808 > NYC > PDX
2020 Races?: Nope.
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Re: Is the "deferral waiver" new? [el gato] [ In reply to ]
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el gato wrote:
Calvin386 wrote:

As it should be. The free market determines policy. Races are full with the policy. Frankly if IM didn't have the policy of no deferrals, some athletes would make up an excuse to defer because they they didn't train enough or the weather was going to be bad etc... The vast majority of athletes understand why the policy is necessary, therefore it remains

However, I do have sympathy for those who are getting caught up in this "perfect storm".

Sorry, but the premise of "capitalism-driven customer service" is just silly. Good companies understand the value of customer-friendly policies, even if they can get away with less. This is just laziness. For example, Vineman (before being purchased by IM) had a waiting list, and had a partial refund policy up to a certain date. As people dropped, their spot was filled off the waiting list. This gave people flexibility, and ensured that nearly everyone that wanted in got in. That's not terribly complicated, nor does it really cost anything to implement.

In fact, IM could make more money off such a policy at least for races that sell out....offer partial refund to person withdrawing (thereby keeping some of that money) and then fill that slot with a full-paying customer.
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Re: Is the "deferral waiver" new? [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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hadukla wrote:
I can't answer for sure but I took advantage of the deferral program for IMSR 2019 and when I signed up for 2020, it was made clear I could not defer again, so I imagine that is the same thing that is happening here (even as I believe all the deferrals this year should not really be counted against that program). Where I would get uncomfortable with it is if they decide to hold events before a vaccine is widely available and if you decide you aren't comfortable with the risks, whether event or travel related, that they are barring you from deferring again. Of course, we won't know any of that until they actually happen.

Thanks @Hadukla. I understand why they would not allow me to choose to defer and can accept this. But what do you think would happen if they cancel it again? Does this mean I won't get another option?
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Re: Is the "deferral waiver" new? [LEBoyd] [ In reply to ]
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LEBoyd wrote:
hadukla wrote:
I can't answer for sure but I took advantage of the deferral program for IMSR 2019 and when I signed up for 2020, it was made clear I could not defer again, so I imagine that is the same thing that is happening here (even as I believe all the deferrals this year should not really be counted against that program). Where I would get uncomfortable with it is if they decide to hold events before a vaccine is widely available and if you decide you aren't comfortable with the risks, whether event or travel related, that they are barring you from deferring again. Of course, we won't know any of that until they actually happen.


Thanks @Hadukla. I understand why they would not allow me to choose to defer and can accept this. But what do you think would happen if they cancel it again? Does this mean I won't get another option?

I think if THEY cancel/defer it again you still get to choose another event. They will certainly have legal issue if they try to cancel outright and not allow anyone to get their money back or choose another event.

808 > NYC > PDX
2020 Races?: Nope.
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Re: Is the "deferral waiver" new? [LEBoyd] [ In reply to ]
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Is the deferral waiver policy new? No, it's been a thing at least as long as I've been racing (5 years).

Is it enforceable? Pretty much.

What's the point of it? Administrative efficiency.

Does it suck for people with legit secondary deferral needs? Sure does.

Are we gonna put up with it? Until there are alternatives, probably.

Anything we can do about it? Stuff like this. Express displeasure. If the economics don't convince them, the displeasure might. Also, to the extent that you can, race indie. Support the smaller orgs, the locals, etc. And be vocal about why.
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Re: Is the "deferral waiver" new? [el gato] [ In reply to ]
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el gato wrote:
Calvin386 wrote:


As it should be. The free market determines policy. Races are full with the policy. Frankly if IM didn't have the policy of no deferrals, some athletes would make up an excuse to defer because they they didn't train enough or the weather was going to be bad etc... The vast majority of athletes understand why the policy is necessary, therefore it remains

However, I do have sympathy for those who are getting caught up in this "perfect storm".


Sorry, but the premise of "capitalism-driven customer service" is just silly. Good companies understand the value of customer-friendly policies, even if they can get away with less. This is just laziness. For example, Vineman (before being purchased by IM) had a waiting list, and had a partial refund policy up to a certain date. As people dropped, their spot was filled off the waiting list. This gave people flexibility, and ensured that nearly everyone that wanted in got in. That's not terribly complicated, nor does it really cost anything to implement.

See what you did there... you agreed with me. You are fine with Vineman only having a partial refund policy and only up to a certain date but not IM's more stringent policy.

I feel like it is safe to assume there were some that were unhappy that the there was only a partial refund or deferral cut off date at all due to circumstances that caused them to not be granted a deferral. I'm sure there were some who raked Vineman over the coals for their too stringent, unfair policy. Under these circumstances we would be in agreement because you think Vineman's policy is fair. I also have no problem with Vineman's policy

People have different opinions and choose to spend / attend / support business' based on those opinions
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Re: Is the "deferral waiver" new? [cloy] [ In reply to ]
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cloy wrote:
I see your point; however, in a situation where I was offered to pick from a lot of 7 races, none at all were appealing nor would I have signed up for them but for the free deferral, it's a bit of a bummer.

None of my options worked for me. They didn't care. I've not done a lot of their events in the past but I won't consider them at all moving forward. My guess is I'm not the only one that feels this way.
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Re: Is the "deferral waiver" new? [Calvin386] [ In reply to ]
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Calvin386 wrote:
See what you did there... you agreed with me.

Yeah... not so much. There's a world of difference between doing *something* for customers, even if it's not everything everyone wants, and basically telling customers they're SOL because they can.
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