For a good part of July & August, I was racing 4x a week as I was just having fun. At some point though, I did an alpe du zwift ride and just fell apart, then tried again and fell apart again. I ended up finding out why it is important not to just have intensity as "training" sessions and to bake in some aerobic work. I mean, I think I knew it beforehand, I just was having fun with the zwift racing. fwiw, I didn't get tired of it, mainly because I varied the races, one flat, one TT, one hilly and one with a nasty climb or 4 so it would mix up the dynamics. I tried only picking races that required zwiftpower profiles and they tend to have more people who are honest about their categories. At this point, I am back with a coach and will lay off them for a while to get some endurance back.

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

I think we all read your first post and came to exactly the same conclusion. The sentence above covers most of it for me.
If you're not finding it crazy difficult to race at the top of Cat B, then you're almost certainly an A. You may be a bottom of the heap A, but still an A.
It SHOULD be crazy difficult to race to your maximum ability. Of course there are races where, provided you get into the lead group at the start, you can get an easy ride to the sprint, but that's only likely if the group is composed entirely of riders who fancy themselves in a sprint so don't attack earlier, and/or the route is very flat. That's pretty rare.

The categories aren't based on 95% of 20mins at your typical race effort when it doesn't feel crazy difficult. They're based on 95% of your best flat out 20min after which you're almost falling off the bike. If that's not how you're measuring it then yes, you are sandbagging.
If you've done >4W/kg on a good day during any session, races included then you're an A. Do you use ZwiftPower? I'm guessing not since it sounds like it would have bumped you up to A. If you want to race fair, use ZwiftPower and also do legit 20min max efforts from time to time. If ZwiftPower bumps you to A or if your 20min power calculated FTP put you >4W/kg, then race as an A, end of story.
During a non-TT race your average may be lower despite having raced very hard due to fluctuating as you push well above FTP for climbs, attacks, or to bridge gaps, and then recover when you can, but if you didn't find it too difficult and were just getting bored waiting for the sprint, then I reckon you're in the wrong category.

Right! Because if you're a legit B, you'll be in trouble in an A race as soon as there's any sort of push, which often means you'll get dropped right out of the gate, unless fast starts are your specialty, in which case you'll likely still get dropped shortly thereafter as soon as there's any sort of climb, or perhaps just a surge of pace. If you can race a category up and stay with it, you're not a category up, you're home, regardless of how hard that feels.
You mention getting dropped and blowing up in A races.... well yeah, a low/mid level A should expect to be constantly at risk of being dropped, and not in contention. Race those around you, the other low/mid level As. That's where you belong.
Anything else makes a joke of the categories. If everyone dropped to the category where they could be in contention, then everyone in the lower half of every category band would be pretending to be at the top of the one below.

Basically, it seems odd to say races are not "crazy difficult" and yet think you're in the correct category. It also makes it less surprising you can manage 4-6 races week. I'd be pushing it to do 2 races a week, but as a mid Cat B I do find them crazy difficult if I'm anywhere near the front, which is rare. I can often survive the starting dash in the lead group, but generally still get dropped relatively early unless the pace is consistent and I'm very careful about my drafting. If there's any real gradients at all, even a few hundred metres at 2-3%, I'll be dropped. I just carry on solo or join a group further back and treat that group as the race. I could drop to C and I'd still have to work hard to be in contention, but I would often be able to do so, unless there were other Bs there. I don't because I'd consider it cheating.

My advice, if you want to race legitimately is to use ZwiftPower and race according to what it says you should. It follows the rules.

Some good points, but it is also important to keep in mind that there are big differences between races depending on the format and the route. Doing a ITT, a race with primes, a hilly, or a flat race will produce different power profiles and different efforts. Depending on the rider it is possible to choose races that are easier than others.
I have 108 races on ZP. Since March my power has been steadily improving and I have lost about 10 lbs, so my raw power and WKG have been going up but I still don’t have any 20 min efforts at 4.21 WKG which would put me at A and definitely not 3 efforts at the A level. I did a ITT Tuesday that took 34 min and got my best 30 min power ever, I still ended up at 3.96 for my 95% 20 min, so my 3 race average on ZP is 3.90 now. Maybe I will get above 4.0 soon.
In my case I can handle the fast start without any problem and I can do short 1-2 min efforts and recover. I was a swimmer, so “short” repeated efforts is what I spent my athletic career doing. But doing Innsbruck, Richmond, Champs, or NY routes are not terrible because sometimes between those hard efforts the pace is not crazy hard.
Wed I did the Midweek SZR race, that has primes in the sprints and KOMs in the Richmond course. It had 218 starters and I finished 13th. It was a 45 min race and my average wkg was 3.6 for the whole race and 3.8 for the 20 min. Those are completely within the B category and I placed pretty high in the race. Most of the races I do, I finish around 3.4-3.6 wkg and they take 35-45 min. I also do the TTT which is usually 1 min at 120-130% ftp with 3-4 min recovery. It is a great practice for the repeated efforts during races.

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Tiago
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Sponsors: : Blueseventy :

The question: Zwift racing, how often

The answer: every time I sign on. The people in front of me, behind me, may not be aware of it, however. But, I know it.

I don't always win, but I always have fun. Training effect????? what-e-v-e-r.

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http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast

But you don't race to your maximum ability in every race. You don't do it in real life, why would you in zwift?

I race 2-3 times a year at my maximum ability (usually national championships or PRT races). The rest of the time are local or regional races that certainly don't put people (anyone?) to their max ability.

If you're talking time trials or races with massive climbs, maybe, but the typical road race or crit? No way.

Hanging on for dear life isn't racing, it's surviving.

I cannot make any sense of that whatsoever.

In my experience, if you are treating every race as a flat out effort you'll be ending the final sprint near to or at max HR and you'll be putting massive strain on your hamstrings. As such my view is anything more than 3 times a week of racing can't be good for you.

On the other hand, if you are treating a race like a training session I can't see a limit as necessary.

More generally, what I found is over the lockdown period I began really enjoying crit racing and pushing up my 20 min power, I was doing a mix of long easy and short sharp and my 20 min power gradually went up from 350 - 395 over the course of the year. Then I began pretty much only doing short sharp efforts (+easy aerobic on other disciplines) and my FTP fell off a cliff. Whilst deeply unscientific, it convinced me if the importance of long aerobic sessions which I'd begun missing out because there was less opportunity to be outside.

Unrelated to the question but as someone mentioned above - I'm also in a grey area at the top of B. I can put out more than 4W/KG for 20 mins so was a 'nearly A' in Zwift power world for a while. But I have the following problem:
- In a B flat crit race ive easily got the power to stay in the front group, often fairly comfortably, then usually do well on the sprint, so I've been in the top 3 in 12/20 of my last crit races. Indicates I should try A and in races that leave at the same time I can often stick with the As the entire time if flat.
- In a B hilly race I will get dropped immediately and usually get bunched with a group of B's/C's

Anyway, it is a great way of training!

On Friday I wanted to do a longer race (Volcano Flat 50k) and planned to get on with 20+ minutes, but got sidetracked. I started and went straight to the warmup pens with 5 minutes to go. I then quickly devised what was actually a pretty effective warmup for how races can start.

Start riding in the pens, Z1-Z2, whatever the legs can do.
when the clock hits xx:35 or xx:05, do a fast spinup to 100-125%FTP for 5 seconds (because I am going to do this with 5 seconds to go anyway)
continue to pedal until the next 5 second spinup, and repeat.

I think I did 9 spinups prior to the race, and what this did is help me put out a good spinup for the race start and get near the front without the legs dying 30 seconds in. I don't think I was truly ready to go until another 10 minutes into the race, but this got me there.

I have primarily been using trainerroad, but decided to get zwift to try it out again.

the racing aspect of zwift appealed to me, and for a few weeks, i was racing every workout...4-5 times a week. it was too much and it wore me down. the fatigue was especially high after i raced an hour long course. from now on, i'm prob going to race 2-3 times a week, pick shorter races, and space it out a little.

I was reflecting on this myself. I'm a diehard trainerroad guy, but I wanted to try a zwift racing season, and did it in the past 2 weeks. I wasn't really motivated this past weekend and did endurance stuff. The racing itself isn't much different from a sweet spot workout I normally do as far as TSS and/or time in zone, but for me I'm finding I'm not looking forward to constantly going out and smashing it in the races. I like the work (and rest) provided by structured workouts and feel those are productive and keep me motivated. I've definitely got the long efforts in me as I've seen in the past couple of weeks, but having to keep myself at that level of motivated/psyched up is mentally exhausting. Looking forward to going back to SSB HV!

That was my experience. I tried using Zwift for regular structured workouts, and it didn't work for me. Doing workouts solo in the world is just kind of boring. It's hard not to race group rides. And the group workouts where every one stays in one blob is just kind of weird. After I found myself bring up other videos on top of Zwift, I realized it was time to go back to TrainerRoad or Sufferfest for their structured workouts. I do enjoy Zwift racing.

For a good part of July & August, I was racing 4x a week as I was just having fun.


I interviewed the #1 Ranked Zwift Racer in the World back in Sept. - Holden Comeau. He said to me that he does not really "train" anymore. His training is just more and more Zwift racing! It's the repetition of it all and the various and different situations that he found most helpful to making him better and better at it all!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I was thinking about the various kinds of racing that can be had and how to turn it into a training schedule, i.e. having one flat race, one race with hills, one with a monster climb or two and then a TT. Various ways of racing I imagine can improve the overall ability. I must say after all that and then doing the Haute Route, I did way better than I expected to!

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808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

zwift racing? for me... never.

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80/20 Endurance Ambassador

I did two short races today (22min each)(B)(Crit City). I was thinking about doing a 3rd but then was like nawwwww. :P

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

I've found that racing mulitple times per week is tough for me. Assume it is all related to effort. If I truly race, I am leaving everything on the table, and recovery takes several days if not a week to fully recover. I'm hoping that I get better at monitoring the effort so that I can race more frequently and use as a hard training day several times per week.

I’ve done 11 races so far this week. Completed 10. Felt crappy Thurs night and took a DNF.

Overall am happy with the results, but would like to get 1st in one of these. I am getting better at the final sprint. Hitting 14 races would be nice for the week. They are mostly 9-11mi distance each so not too long, but long enough for my HR to max out usually.

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Thank god it's not just me. I though i'd only do this on the road but, no, i'm doing it virtually as well.

Link to interview? Tried your blog link but 2018 was last article. My biggest curiosity is how his Zwift racing transferred over to road racing?

Thanks

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http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com

I do Zwift races or hard workouts mostly running and limit them to 2 a week, with the rest of the efforts easier.

Link to interview? Tried your blog link but 2018 was last article. My biggest curiosity is how his Zwift racing transferred over to road racing?


Interview with Holden Comeau is here - https://www.endurancezonetv.com/...-guest-holden-comeau

There is, and is not a lot of cross-over from how will you do in Zwift racing to real road racing and vice-versa. Hard to describe - there is the fitness aspects of it, and then there are the gaming characteristics, strategies and tactics - all different enough to make it almost like two different sports, really!

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I gave up on Zwift during the lockdown and moved over to the RGT platform instead. The gamification aspects (such as power ups) on Zwift may be fun for some people but despite seeing smaller race fields, I found the simulated physics much more realistic on RGT and any e-doping far less prevalent. It doesn't categorise races, is free and the graphics are better in my view too. I also can race over 'real' simulated routes which is an attraction in my view.

A lot of this discussion is helped by how seriously you treat e-races though. I don't consider them serious races at all and use them exclusively for training. One thing I would say though is that there is nothing magical about doing them so if people find they are performing better in their triathlons as a result of racing online lot's, that's great but it merely shows that your training before probably wasn't that greatly refined but neither will it be if you start 'racing' multiple times in a week either.