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Clayton Bigsby.... nope, it’s Joe Biggs- Proud Boys leader
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Clayton Bigsby.... nope, it’s Joe Biggs- Proud Boys leader

Apparently a group that’s leader is Black/Cuban.

Is Trump still racist?


https://www.latimes.com/...s-joe-biggs-portland
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Re: Clayton Bigsby.... nope, it’s Joe Biggs- Proud Boys leader [jharris] [ In reply to ]
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Yes. Next?



"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
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Re: Clayton Bigsby.... nope, it’s Joe Biggs- Proud Boys leader [jharris] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting interview with a former (Black) member, from several years ago.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/626/transcript
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Re: Clayton Bigsby.... nope, it’s Joe Biggs- Proud Boys leader [jharris] [ In reply to ]
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I don’t think this proves what you think it proves, but you already knew that. Carry on.
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Re: Clayton Bigsby.... nope, it’s Joe Biggs- Proud Boys leader [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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tri_yoda wrote:

Interesting interview with a former (Black) member, from several years ago.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/626/transcript

Thanks for posting. Was an interesting read.

What a dumpster fire of toxic masculinity. No wonder Trump has taken a liking.

So the guy that put together the Charlottesville rally went from voting for Obama to what he is now because.....wait for it......a job he applied for was given to a less experienced female? This is causing white men to feel so aggrieved? These are the people calling lefties “snowflakes”. That’s funny.
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Re: Clayton Bigsby.... nope, it’s Joe Biggs- Proud Boys leader [jharris] [ In reply to ]
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jharris wrote:
Clayton Bigsby.... nope, it’s Joe Biggs- Proud Boys leader

Apparently a group that’s leader is Black/Cuban.

Is Trump still racist?


https://www.latimes.com/...s-joe-biggs-portland

I didn't know you could ONLY be a racist to be a proud boy piece of fucking filth.

........next.
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Re: Clayton Bigsby.... nope, it’s Joe Biggs- Proud Boys leader [TimeIsUp] [ In reply to ]
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TimeIsUp wrote:
I don’t think this proves what you think it proves, but you already knew that. Carry on.

I’m not trying to prove anything

Just saying this whole political game is a joke!
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Re: Clayton Bigsby.... nope, it’s Joe Biggs- Proud Boys leader [jharris] [ In reply to ]
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I assume they brought the guy on his right in as a ringer for the Intramural Fascist Basketball League.

Your argument that you were persuadable to vote for Biden is severely undercut when you try to minimize and make light of who the Proud Boys are.



We are so fucked.
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Re: Clayton Bigsby.... nope, it’s Joe Biggs- Proud Boys leader [jharris] [ In reply to ]
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jharris wrote:
TimeIsUp wrote:
I don’t think this proves what you think it proves, but you already knew that. Carry on.


I’m not trying to prove anything

Just saying this whole political game is a joke!

says he's not trying to prove anything. outlines what he's trying to prove. I don't think this proves what you think it proves, but you already knew that. Carry on.
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Re: Clayton Bigsby.... nope, it’s Joe Biggs- Proud Boys leader [jharris] [ In reply to ]
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If you're assembling the complete set: http://www.logcabin.org/

Stephen Miller, who OBTW is Jewish, is as big of a white supremacist as you'll ever find.
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Re: Clayton Bigsby.... nope, it’s Joe Biggs- Proud Boys leader [geetee] [ In reply to ]
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geetee wrote:
If you're assembling the complete set: http://www.logcabin.org/

Stephen Miller, who OBTW is Jewish, is as big of a white supremacist as you'll ever find.

I can't remember the particulars of the story now. I think it was out of Texas but the white supremacist in question was a guy of Mexican descent who looked it and had a Hispanic name. So there seems to be some flexibility in who's "white" these days.
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Re: Clayton Bigsby.... nope, it’s Joe Biggs- Proud Boys leader [jharris] [ In reply to ]
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jharris wrote:
TimeIsUp wrote:
I don’t think this proves what you think it proves, but you already knew that. Carry on.

I’m not trying to prove anything

Just saying this whole political game is a joke!

You just suggested Trump is, in fact, not racist because a leader of Proud Boys is a person of color.

You think the color of that man’s skin negates the Proud Boy’s racist rhetoric? You are seriously asking us to judge Trump based upon the color of that man’s skin? In our country we judge people on the basis of their character, not their skin. We have a special name for people who judge others on the basis of their skin.

When asked about white supremacy, Trump said: “Proud Boys, stand back and stand by! But I’ll tell you what, somebody’s got to do something about antifa and the left.”

That quote will forever define Trump because it reveals his character. Your vote reveals your character.

You’re trying to escape accountability when you say “this whole political game is a joke.” The consequences of politics is real. Throwing up your hands and pretending what you say and do doesn’t matter is simply an echo of Trump’s “I take no responsibility.”

“The buck stops here” is a different famous presidential quote that means an individual makes decisions and accepts responsibility for them.

Who do YOU want to be? This election is one of those times when we decide who we are, as individuals and as a nation. Each of us is making a choice this election. There is no escaping the responsibility.
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Re: Clayton Bigsby.... nope, it’s Joe Biggs- Proud Boys leader [jharris] [ In reply to ]
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jharris wrote:
Just saying this whole political game is a joke!


There's no game here. The Proud Boys are garbage. There shouldn't be any nuance or gotcha memes on this one.
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Re: Clayton Bigsby.... nope, it’s Joe Biggs- Proud Boys leader [jharris] [ In reply to ]
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jharris wrote:
Clayton Bigsby.... nope, it’s Joe Biggs- Proud Boys leader

Apparently a group that’s leader is Black/Cuban.

Is Trump still racist?


https://www.latimes.com/...s-joe-biggs-portland

You may want to read the article closer regarding leader vs. organizer.
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Re: Clayton Bigsby.... nope, it’s Joe Biggs- Proud Boys leader [TimeIsUp] [ In reply to ]
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TimeIsUp wrote:
tri_yoda wrote:


Interesting interview with a former (Black) member, from several years ago.

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/626/transcript


Thanks for posting. Was an interesting read.

What a dumpster fire of toxic masculinity. No wonder Trump has taken a liking.

So the guy that put together the Charlottesville rally went from voting for Obama to what he is now because.....wait for it......a job he applied for was given to a less experienced female? This is causing white men to feel so aggrieved? These are the people calling lefties “snowflakes”. That’s funny.

When you read this article (and some other things I have seen over the past couple of years), the Proud Boys are really just Lost Boys.

Kind of as a complete aside, there is a new podcast out from Oregon Public Broadcasting (OPB) called Timber Wars. One of the most poignant moments in the whole series was when Bill Clinton made an observation that the Timber war wasn't really about the trees or the spotted owl, it was about change and people's fear and/or unwillingness to deal with this. And it's generically "change" that is creating the divide in America right now, it just gets manifested in different issues, but the right is basically trying to sell a model of America from 80-100 years which represents not only no change, but actually a regression to the progress we've made.

So back to the Proud boys. As much as the very liberal left tries to deny this, there is a strong vein of (white) Western European culture in the history of the US (at least in the power structure). We were founded on white male aristocratic power. Granted we've come to the conclusion that such a history was unfair and had a lot of oppression, but still a non-trivial number of American's identified with this and can't deal with coming to grips with it's toxicity and the necessary change. And this is both psychological, but there are also real impacts with losing a privilege you have had for so long you have mistaken it for a birthright. These people are left with an identify crisis, they just want to belong (without having to change or admit fault) and that's what brings these groups together. Unfortunately we have such a leadership vacuum that no one can help create a new American identity to these people, or at least to the extent they can, it's just too scary for the kind of people who end up as proud boys. These are just lost boys looking for a leader, unfortunately leadership based on fear is easier to sell than leadership based on hope and change.
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Re: Clayton Bigsby.... nope, it’s Joe Biggs- Proud Boys leader [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
geetee wrote:
If you're assembling the complete set: http://www.logcabin.org/

Stephen Miller, who OBTW is Jewish, is as big of a white supremacist as you'll ever find.


I can't remember the particulars of the story now. I think it was out of Texas but the white supremacist in question was a guy of Mexican descent who looked it and had a Hispanic name. So there seems to be some flexibility in who's "white" these days.

The other thing is, not all groups being labelled as "white supremacists" by the left are in fact white supremacists. There is a spectrum and in some cases the label may just be incorrect. Yes, there are the true neo-Nazis who believe in theories of racial purity. However, there are groups like the Proud Boys who claim to believe in the values of Western Civilization, not white superiority. Obviously there is a correlation between the two, but that doesn't mean there is causation. Are they sincere or not, I can't say, but I can also say just calling any group of predominantly white people who you disagree with as racist isn't necessarily right either. You can certainly say they are misogynists, they do have very specific views of the role of women in the world, as far as race it's not really so clear. There is no denying the Proud Boys have some clearly non-white members and they certainly have some members who are racists. Maybe it's just for show, but it's not a fact you just get to ignore.

Is it racist it racist to believe in cultural superiority? And just because most or all members of the culture are from a specific "race" doesn't mean this is a racist view, provided they don't make race a requirement for membership in the culture.
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Re: Clayton Bigsby.... nope, it’s Joe Biggs- Proud Boys leader [tri_yoda] [ In reply to ]
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tri_yoda wrote:

So back to the Proud boys. As much as the very liberal left tries to deny this, there is a strong vein of (white) Western European culture in the history of the US (at least in the power structure). We were founded on white male aristocratic power. Granted we've come to the conclusion that such a history was unfair and had a lot of oppression, but still a non-trivial number of American's identified with this and can't deal with coming to grips with it's toxicity and the necessary change. And this is both psychological, but there are also real impacts with losing a privilege you have had for so long you have mistaken it for a birthright. These people are left with an identify crisis, they just want to belong (without having to change or admit fault) and that's what brings these groups together. Unfortunately we have such a leadership vacuum that no one can help create a new American identity to these people, or at least to the extent they can, it's just too scary for the kind of people who end up as proud boys. These are just lost boys looking for a leader, unfortunately leadership based on fear is easier to sell than leadership based on hope and change.

Who on the liberal left denies this? What you outline is much more the left talking points, than what you heard from right wingers saying "economic anxiety". The left is very clear about the history of a white power structure in this country.

Except, you are incorrect, there is no leadership vacuum here. There is an entire political party gladly stroking their grievance. You have a president running on turning back the clock to when they were in total control and privilege. trump was the one lying to them that coal was coming back or other jobs were coming back. He said exactly what that group you talked about wanted to hear, even if it was not the truth. You saw this happen exactly in coal country. trump lied that coal was coming back and ridiculed Clinton for saying that there need to be change. Clinton was right and outlined programs to help the areas change. There is no leadership vacuum here, the leadership is filled. Before trump it was filled with tea party members.
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Re: Clayton Bigsby.... nope, it’s Joe Biggs- Proud Boys leader [CallMeMaybe] [ In reply to ]
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CallMeMaybe wrote:
jharris wrote:
TimeIsUp wrote:
I don’t think this proves what you think it proves, but you already knew that. Carry on.


I’m not trying to prove anything

Just saying this whole political game is a joke!

Your vote reveals your character


My problem with politics, which I don’t even like politics, is that you never really know the truth. You hear what the media or government officials show us. To try and learn the truth, you invest hours and hours you don’t have, unless you’re retired.

This means that I know my vote is made based on information I have which may or may not be the real truth. Attempting to decide what is valid and what is noise as well as negative campaign tactics from the other party is exhausting.

So, my vote doesn’t reveal my character. How can it when none of us truly know anything. We might as well throw darts.
Last edited by: jharris: Oct 1, 20 13:40
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