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Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters
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Hello All:
Do any of you know of true two sided power meter systems that will provide left/right balance feedback all the way to 99/1? Maybe Infocranks, Assioma pedals, or SRM Exakt pedals?
Thanks,
Jim
Last edited by: Bio_McGeek: Sep 29, 20 9:39
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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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Can you run them as 2 separate power meters and just look at the wattages on each leg?

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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Creative suggestion! Keeping in mind this is an older patient population with a variety of issues, monitoring two screens might be a bit of a stretch. Even so, we may have to try that if we can't find another solution.
Cheers,
Jim

JasoninHalifax wrote:
Can you run them as 2 separate power meters and just look at the wattages on each leg?
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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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I have the Assioma pedals. I will try to setup a test in the next day or so, if someone else does not beat me to it.
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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome, thank you!

exxxviii wrote:
I have the Assioma pedals. I will try to setup a test in the next day or so, if someone else does not beat me to it.
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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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Powertap P1's do. I do "dead legged pedalling" (thanks Colby Pearce) during each warm up and I regularly see 90/10, 93/7, etc because the dead leg still contributes a small amount due to falling with gravity.
Last edited by: Vols: Sep 29, 20 8:05
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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [Vols] [ In reply to ]
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Perfect, thank you!

Vols wrote:
Powertap P1's do. I do "dead legged pedalling" (thanks Colby Pearce) during each warm up and I regularly see 90/10, 93/7, etc because the dead leg still contributes a small amount due to falling with gravity.
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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [Vols] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Vols:
Two follow up questions. Are you getting the left right balance on an Edge head unit? If so, can you also get the "Peak Power Phase" using the P1's?
Thanks,
Jim

Vols wrote:
Powertap P1's do. I do "dead legged pedalling" (thanks Colby Pearce) during each warm up and I regularly see 90/10, 93/7, etc because the dead leg still contributes a small amount due to falling with gravity.
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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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Bio_McGeek wrote:
Hi Vols:
Two follow up questions. Are you getting the left right balance on an Edge head unit? If so, can you also get the "Peak Power Phase" using the P1's?
Thanks,
Jim

Vols wrote:
Powertap P1's do. I do "dead legged pedalling" (thanks Colby Pearce) during each warm up and I regularly see 90/10, 93/7, etc because the dead leg still contributes a small amount due to falling with gravity.


1. Yes, I use a edge 520 and can get immediate power balance, as well as 3, 10, 30 seconds, and full ride averages.
2. I know it's an "after the fact" option, but I don't believe I can see it in ride. You might want to check the connect IQ store and see if it's an add on option. I do have torque effectiveness as well as pedal smoothness that are split between L/R, but I don't really use those and have never looked mid ride if they're showing anything of value

EDIT: Looks like with the P1's I don't actually have peak power phase after the fact. It's a garmin option but I don't see any data for any of my rides. I'd never looked before
Last edited by: Vols: Sep 30, 20 9:05
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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [Vols] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Vols! I wonder if that's an Edge issue. Could be that the 1030s have it.

Vols wrote:
Bio_McGeek wrote:
Hi Vols:
Two follow up questions. Are you getting the left right balance on an Edge head unit? If so, can you also get the "Peak Power Phase" using the P1's?
Thanks,
Jim

Vols wrote:
Powertap P1's do. I do "dead legged pedalling" (thanks Colby Pearce) during each warm up and I regularly see 90/10, 93/7, etc because the dead leg still contributes a small amount due to falling with gravity.


1. Yes, I use a edge 520 and can get immediate power balance, as well as 3, 10, 30 seconds, and full ride averages.
2. I know it's an "after the fact" option, but I don't believe I can see it in ride. You might want to check the connect IQ store and see if it's an add on option. I do have torque effectiveness as well as pedal smoothness that are split between L/R, but I don't really use those and have never looked mid ride if they're showing anything of value

EDIT: Looks like with the P1's I don't actually have peak power phase after the fact. It's a garmin option but I don't see any data for any of my rides. I'd never looked before
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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Jim,

ROTOR 2INpower measures both legs separately, but the displayed info doesn't reach 99/1:
When we step out from one of the pedals, considering that its gravity's power contribution during the downstroke, becomes negative during the upstroke, the only main reasons to have measurements from its side are inertia variations and electrical noise... For that reason ROTOR 2INpower cuts (by software) this kind of noise, considering a 0w input from that pedal whose balance goes below 5%, and therefore the monitor displays 100/0 (or 0/100).

Kind regards,
Pablo
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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [pcarrasco] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you Pablo! When I originally posted I wasn't thinking about bottom bracket limitations. We're currently using a recumbent exercise bike with square tapered spindle and a non-standard bottom bracket shell. So, at least for now, we'll need to stay with pedal systems. That said, I'm intrigued by the idea of the 2INpower balance vs pseudo balance and might want to try that in the future.
Cheers,
Jim

pcarrasco wrote:
Hello Jim,
ROTOR 2INpower measures both legs separately, but the displayed info doesn't reach 99/1:
When we step out from one of the pedals, considering that its gravity's power contribution during the downstroke, becomes negative during the upstroke, the only main reasons to have measurements from its side are inertia variations and electrical noise... For that reason ROTOR 2INpower cuts (by software) this kind of noise, considering a 0w input from that pedal whose balance goes below 5%, and therefore the monitor displays 100/0 (or 0/100).

Kind regards,
Pablo
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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Exxxviii:
Please let me know when you get a chance to look at balance on your Assioma's. I really need to order either them or the PowerTaps in the next day or so.
Cheers,
Jimi

exxxviii wrote:
I have the Assioma pedals. I will try to setup a test in the next day or so, if someone else does not beat me to it.
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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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I have the SRM Exakt and can test this weekend.



"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [Vols] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Vols,
replying to: "I do have torque effectiveness as well as pedal smoothness that are split between L/R, but I don't really use those and have never looked mid ride if they're showing anything of value"

I just want to mention that those numbers may do not show anything valuable meanwhile you are pedaling, but later on, for the pedaling analysis, may help you to understand how different is the pedal "circle" when you maintain 250w on the flat compared to uphill (being pedal smoothness higher climbing while you are on the saddle); or that when climbing, the balance uses to be more even at the same time that the pedals upstrokes are more "active" (while pedaling in the flat we use to be more active mainly on pushing the pedals, but, except for injuries, the bigger differences between legs use to happen during the upstroke).
As well, they may help us to understand why cadence is normally lower or why we use to suffer more pedaling uphill...
I haven't made any research or studied those situations, but it has been a quick impression under my curiosity as an engineer who loves cycling and develops powermeters and bike components in general.


Best regards,
Pablo


Vols wrote:
Bio_McGeek wrote:
Hi Vols:

Two follow up questions. Are you getting the left right balance on an Edge head unit? If so, can you also get the "Peak Power Phase" using the P1's?
Thanks,
Jim

Vols wrote:
Powertap P1's do. I do "dead legged pedalling" (thanks Colby Pearce) during each warm up and I regularly see 90/10, 93/7, etc because the dead leg still contributes a small amount due to falling with gravity.


1. Yes, I use a edge 520 and can get immediate power balance, as well as 3, 10, 30 seconds, and full ride averages.
2. I know it's an "after the fact" option, but I don't believe I can see it in ride. You might want to check the connect IQ store and see if it's an add on option. I do have torque effectiveness as well as pedal smoothness that are split between L/R, but I don't really use those and have never looked mid ride if they're showing anything of value

EDIT: Looks like with the P1's I don't actually have peak power phase after the fact. It's a garmin option but I don't see any data for any of my rides. I'd never looked before

Last edited by: pcarrasco: Oct 1, 20 10:39
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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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If it is not too late for you, I can get back tomorrow. I had an unexpected water flood, so my pain cave is disassembled. I am riding tomorrow for sure, so I will have many opportunities to see how far I can get my power balance.
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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry to hear about your flood.
Tomorrow will be great, thank you!

exxxviii wrote:
If it is not too late for you, I can get back tomorrow. I had an unexpected water flood, so my pain cave is disassembled. I am riding tomorrow for sure, so I will have many opportunities to see how far I can get my power balance.
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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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From your post I think you are working with elderly people or those who may have some cognitive impairment. While working in extended care we used this
http://www.hcifitness.com/PhysiostepPRO

Edit, it is this one
https://www.thera-trainer.de/en/thera-trainer-products/cycling/thera-trainer-tigo/
Last edited by: softrun: Oct 2, 20 14:21
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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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The Assioma pedals get pretty close to 99/1. It is not easy on an actual ride, but I got both sides well below 20%, and probably as low as 3% a few times.
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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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I checked my SRM Exakt today and could get to 99/1 balance pretty easily.



"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack
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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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Great, thank you!

exxxviii wrote:
The Assioma pedals get pretty close to 99/1. It is not easy on an actual ride, but I got both sides well below 20%, and probably as low as 3% a few times.
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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [CPT Chaos] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you!

CPT Chaos wrote:
I checked my SRM Exakt today and could get to 99/1 balance pretty easily.
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Re: Left/Right Balance on Two Sided Powermeters [softrun] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Softrun. Not sure it work for our application but thanks.

softrun wrote:
From your post I think you are working with elderly people or those who may have some cognitive impairment. While working in extended care we used this
http://www.hcifitness.com/PhysiostepPRO

Edit, it is this one
https://www.thera-trainer.de/en/thera-trainer-products/cycling/thera-trainer-tigo/
Quote Reply