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Re: How protected am I with a good face mask? [Uncle Arqyle] [ In reply to ]
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Are you saying that the logic for filtering construction debris is the same as pathogens?
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Re: How protected am I with a good face mask? [gmh39] [ In reply to ]
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gmh39 wrote:
I thought masks were meant to protect others from you, not you from others?

This^^^^^ is the answer
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Re: How protected am I with a good face mask? [Rideon77] [ In reply to ]
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Rideon77 wrote:
gmh39 wrote:
I thought masks were meant to protect others from you, not you from others?


This^^^^^ is the answer

Might be right, but it was the worst possible message to send. I'll just leave it at that

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: How protected am I with a good face mask? [rijndael] [ In reply to ]
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rijndael wrote:
Are you saying that the logic for filtering construction debris is the same as pathogens?

The logic is the same. Construction and healthcare are not different logically, the underlying principle is still to filter things out.
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Re: How protected am I with a good face mask? [Uncle Arqyle] [ In reply to ]
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Uncle Arqyle wrote:
The logic is the same.
In construction, an N95 has sufficient filtering for most of the common jobsite particulate. And, filtration on intake is your only option.

It does not cover all of the small aerosolized droplet sizes for healthcare, at least as far as covid is concerned. So, we're trying to bump the overall efficacy by filtering in both directions.
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Re: How protected am I with a good face mask? [triguy86] [ In reply to ]
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triguy86 wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
I think Ai_1 really covered the entire situation with common sense. All the black and white positions is what leads to the conflicts and people engaging in high risk activity "just because" or others wearing masks (solo runs around zero humans), just to make a point.

Minimally, covering up with 'whatever' around others will marginally help ourselves and help others. The better the cover up the better the impact. When not around others, no need to wear anything.

Does that make sense. People in Asian societies have been doing this FOREVER and look how well they are doing. My colleagues in Japan and Taiwan, just kept working with no breaks the entire time albeit with many restrictions, but at least they managed to relatively safely keep their societies functioning like pre Covid19


Yea we are all saying the same thing are we not? Not sure what the problem is. It’s black and white what protects you and what doesn’t. Certainly what you choose to do is up to you. I can only speak to what I know, which is that in the medical community anything less than an N95 or better isn’t considered protective. I was just stating that. You shouldn’t feel protected by a cloth face covering because you’re not. You should still wear one. But it’s not for your protection.

This is a statement that does not align with data. The follows are all from pre-SARS-CoV-2...so it this is not new (this includes other corona virus strains):

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32562601/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32388933/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32353347/
There are more if anyone cares to look. Not terribly hard to find...We unfortunately live in a time of information lacking a reality filter. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion; but the data is the data.

Stephen J

I believe my local reality has been violated.
____________________________________________
Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2
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Re: How protected am I with a good face mask? [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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RandMart wrote:
Rideon77 wrote:
gmh39 wrote:
I thought masks were meant to protect others from you, not you from others?


This^^^^^ is the answer


Might be right, but it was the worst possible message to send. I'll just leave it at that

Basically since people are selfish, you want them to all think they will protect themselves from dying by wearing a mask in crowded indoor venues. Then you get compliance if they think they will be personally hurt. Relying on people to care about other people, well that's a tougher sell.
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Re: How protected am I with a good face mask? [stephenj] [ In reply to ]
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stephenj wrote:
triguy86 wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
I think Ai_1 really covered the entire situation with common sense. All the black and white positions is what leads to the conflicts and people engaging in high risk activity "just because" or others wearing masks (solo runs around zero humans), just to make a point.

Minimally, covering up with 'whatever' around others will marginally help ourselves and help others. The better the cover up the better the impact. When not around others, no need to wear anything.

Does that make sense. People in Asian societies have been doing this FOREVER and look how well they are doing. My colleagues in Japan and Taiwan, just kept working with no breaks the entire time albeit with many restrictions, but at least they managed to relatively safely keep their societies functioning like pre Covid19


Yea we are all saying the same thing are we not? Not sure what the problem is. It’s black and white what protects you and what doesn’t. Certainly what you choose to do is up to you. I can only speak to what I know, which is that in the medical community anything less than an N95 or better isn’t considered protective. I was just stating that. You shouldn’t feel protected by a cloth face covering because you’re not. You should still wear one. But it’s not for your protection.

This is a statement that does not align with data. The follows are all from pre-SARS-CoV-2...so it this is not new (this includes other corona virus strains):

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32562601/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32388933/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32353347/
There are more if anyone cares to look. Not terribly hard to find...We unfortunately live in a time of information lacking a reality filter. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion; but the data is the data.

Stephen J

That’s all Chinese data 😅
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Re: How protected am I with a good face mask? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
RandMart wrote:
Rideon77 wrote:
gmh39 wrote:
I thought masks were meant to protect others from you, not you from others?


This^^^^^ is the answer


Might be right, but it was the worst possible message to send. I'll just leave it at that


Basically since people are selfish, you want them to all think they will protect themselves from dying by wearing a mask in crowded indoor venues. Then you get compliance if they think they will be personally hurt. Relying on people to care about other people, well that's a tougher sell.

Which is precisely why I wear an (K)N95---to protect myself from those who couldn't care less.

I use one without an exhalation valve to be helpful to others.
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Re: How protected am I with a good face mask? [stephenj] [ In reply to ]
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What does the CDC (whom we are all saying we should believe right?) tell me to wear to enter a covid patient’s room? N95 or better (among other things). So the “experts” do not believe a cloth face covering is protective. As I’ve said. I’m out.
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Re: How protected am I with a good face mask? [triguy86] [ In reply to ]
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It's just fucking painful, man.
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Re: How protected am I with a good face mask? [vonschnapps] [ In reply to ]
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From the data I've seen, wearing a 2-ply cotton mask reduces your risk of inhaling an infectious dose by ~65% but reduces your risk of infecting others (via both droplet filtration and velocity reduction) by ~95%. So if two people both have masks, the risk is reduced by ~98.5%.

N95s work extremely well because filtering out 95%+ of the viral load makes it very difficult do get an infectious dose (so risk reduction is >>95%). Hospitals rely on N95s when dealing with diseases like TB that are much more infectious than CV.

Personally, there is no way I'm going to the gym until we are a lot further on in combating this virus. The combination of heavy breathing, poor ventilation, and inconsistent mask wearing just makes the risk profile too high.

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
Last edited by: Titanflexr: Sep 28, 20 14:57
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Re: How protected am I with a good face mask? [triguy86] [ In reply to ]
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triguy86 wrote:
What does the CDC (whom we are all saying we should believe right?) tell me to wear to enter a covid patient’s room? N95 or better (among other things). So the “experts” do not believe a cloth face covering is protective. As I’ve said. I’m out.


But that is not what you said which I replied to. Your statement:

" I can only speak to what I know, which is that in the medical community anything less than an N95 or better isn’t considered protective. I was just stating that."

Your statements are part of the problem. People see them, and then it becomes part of their "knowledge"; but it is wrong. Read the articles which were linked in the last post...the WHOLE things, see what the methods are; read the data and see if it aligns with the conclusions. Quite often it does in peer review literature. In response to your question as it appears above (which is different from your previous post I was replying to); yes, the N95 or better is recommended when treating patients with an active infection; just like they recommend complete containment suit with piped air in a BSL4 lab...but that would be yet a different question.

Stephen J

OK, Im going to eat a little crow right now; I accidentally attached a different set of references than I thought I was...Im going to have to go through to find the ones I thought I was including. My apologies.


I believe my local reality has been violated.
____________________________________________
Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2
Last edited by: stephenj: Sep 28, 20 15:07
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Re: How protected am I with a good face mask? [stephenj] [ In reply to ]
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stephenj wrote:
triguy86 wrote:
What does the CDC (whom we are all saying we should believe right?) tell me to wear to enter a covid patient’s room? N95 or better (among other things). So the “experts” do not believe a cloth face covering is protective. As I’ve said. I’m out.


But that is not what you said which I replied to. Your statement:

" I can only speak to what I know, which is that in the medical community anything less than an N95 or better isn’t considered protective. I was just stating that."

Your statements are part of the problem. People see them, and then it becomes part of their "knowledge"; but it is wrong. Read the articles which were linked in the last post...the WHOLE things, see what the methods are; read the data and see if it aligns with the conclusions. Quite often it does in peer review literature. In response to your question as it appears above (which is different from your previous post I was replying to); yes, the N95 or better is recommended when treating patients with an active infection; just like they recommend complete containment suit with piped air in a BSL4 lab...but that would be yet a different question.

Stephen J

OK, Im going to eat a little crow right now; I accidentally attached a different set of references than I thought I was...Im going to have to go through to find the ones I thought I was including. My apologies.

No apologies needed I’m all for data. And healthy debate.
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Re: How protected am I with a good face mask? [triguy86] [ In reply to ]
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triguy86 wrote:
stephenj wrote:
triguy86 wrote:
What does the CDC (whom we are all saying we should believe right?) tell me to wear to enter a covid patient’s room? N95 or better (among other things). So the “experts” do not believe a cloth face covering is protective. As I’ve said. I’m out.


But that is not what you said which I replied to. Your statement:

" I can only speak to what I know, which is that in the medical community anything less than an N95 or better isn’t considered protective. I was just stating that."

Your statements are part of the problem. People see them, and then it becomes part of their "knowledge"; but it is wrong. Read the articles which were linked in the last post...the WHOLE things, see what the methods are; read the data and see if it aligns with the conclusions. Quite often it does in peer review literature. In response to your question as it appears above (which is different from your previous post I was replying to); yes, the N95 or better is recommended when treating patients with an active infection; just like they recommend complete containment suit with piped air in a BSL4 lab...but that would be yet a different question.

Stephen J

OK, Im going to eat a little crow right now; I accidentally attached a different set of references than I thought I was...Im going to have to go through to find the ones I thought I was including. My apologies.


No apologies needed I’m all for data. And healthy debate.

Yea, those article were in regards to a second Sars CoV-2 infection after the primary infection, which would have relevance to the longevity of an immune response; or at least among some cohort. Im still trying to track down those other articles which I had pulled together for another colleague who had asked the question regarding efficacy of 'custom' face coverings several months ago; but I am having trouble locating them. Again, apologies for the delay.
Stephen J

I believe my local reality has been violated.
____________________________________________
Happiness = Results / (Expectations)^2
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