It might be that the statement 'a rider who knows has half an idea what they’re doing' might mean that good riders don't ride in the extensions when it can be dangerous, reducing the danger to that of a road bike.

Seems this article has just been a good way to spice up a slow week. Maybe we should all talk about IM Cairns where there were 230 participants (all on tri bikes - kidding) and 75 Kona slots. Is that the new normal?

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"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
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Although I like this idea in principle, given that they can't come close to enforcing the drafting rules presently, I don't see this working. You would just get a bunch of tri bikes mixed in the road bike draft packs.

Faster than what? I descend on my road bike on the little creek hills around here over 40mph. Same on the TT bike. 5mph isn't going to make or break it in an incident at that speed. It's still a yard sale either way.

If that squirrel jumps in front at that speed, what you going to do on the road bike? Panic stop and crash anyway? No, you get on the base bar and wait for the hit keeping it straight then slow the best you can after it takes out some spokes or a RD.

If you need to constantly check the brakes you might need to consider not riding the TT bike on those roads. Like, don't ride a TT bike in a busy city. In town you have the constant "turn in front" deal, so of course.....don't ride the TT bike there and don't hammer like crazy on the road bike.

The sport bike riders who know what they're doing don't cruise stop'n'go city traffic and side streets. They head out to the country.

How about running barefoot and naked........(facepalm)

If we're concerned about the safety of a rider in a triathlon riding a TT bike...how can anybody justify having an open water swim?

As far as accessibility to the sport though, I love the idea of having a non-carbon division or even race. Sure you can still put a lot of $$$ into an aluminum build, but it would at least eliminate some of that feeling of inadequacy I know a lot of new people to the sport have in transition when they are slotted next to somebody on a many thousand dollar bike.

This argument doesn't hold water. You're not comparing bikes, you're comparing events. Of course road races/crits are far more dangerous, and they'd be absolutely lethal if people tried to ride them in the same manner but on on TT bikes. However, we're not talking about solo riding versus group racing, we're talking about TT/Tri bikes versus road bikes, and given you ride both, you know perfectly well that the former are more dangerous to ride under otherwise similar circumstances.

Again the claims here are not about the safety of road racing. I reckon a typical TT/tri bike ride is a lot safer than a typical road race/crit but that's NOT the point being argued and is pretty irrelevant.
it's not about personal responsibility, it's about inherently flawed ergonomics. You cannot brake from the normal riding position and cannot get to the alternative basebar position where the brakes and better control can be accessed without significant delay and further risk. In unstable conditions it may be completely unfeasible. You can't simply say it's the rider's fault for finding themselves in this situation. That's equivalent to saying ABS brakes on cars aren't needed because you shouldn't need them. It's not true and not a valid argument anyway.

Sure, you could make this argument, but I'm not going to. If everyone had to ride road bikes, I'd ride a road bike. I ride a Tri bike because otherwise I'll be much slower and other people are riding them. I care about safety, a level playing field, and accessibility to the sport. I think there's a very valid argument that TT/Tri bikes are detrimental to all 3. On the other hand I'm not anti innovation, on the contrary (see my previous comment regarding the Morf bars). However, I do think tri bikes are a very dubious solution, due to the highly flawed cockpit ergonomics.

Death of the TT bike, rise of the triathlon bike.

I think there are two very distinct markets now the manufacturers have cottoned onto the fact that it's triathletes that buy them. The (bad) article is written from a cyclists perspective, where it is still the norm to get a TT bike one size smaller than your road bike and run a lot of pad drop, partly because of UCI length rules (think they still exist). Look at all the road pros and their positions are similar, to the point that if they posted a critique my fit thread they would instantly be told to move the pads forward.
Triathletes have already adopted the benefits of sizing up and sitting "in" the bike rather than perched on it, which contributes to better handling, longer wheelbase etc. Plus we likely spend a lot more time on them so are used to the handling.

The braking aspect on the Tri bars could've been solved years ago. Remember the HED third hand? Banned by the UCI before manufacturers realised there was a much bigger separate triathlon market. Had that idea been developed I think we would all be riding something similar to the extent it would come as stock equipment on all Tri bikes and be made by the likes of SRAM and Shimano.

I don't think the super Tri bike has anything to do with reduced participation. Triathlon is hard. The younger generation coming through want instant gratification, and improving in three sports takes dedication and time. In the days of likes and kudos it's much more preferable to post a group ride on strava where you've averaged 20mph plus over 70miles, but neglect to mention the two 45min cafe stops, and then finish up with an arty black and white Instagram shot of your bike leant against a road sign. To be a triathlete requires entering a triathlon, wearing a race number, and being given a finish time that positions you amongst your peers, something which a lot of people now aren't prepared to do because they know the result won't be a podium and won't look like "success" on social media.

Kinetic energy = (MV^2)/2
If you're going 40 instead of 35, whether it's km/h or mph, that's about 31% more energy. Not a small difference and easily enough to "make or break it".
Which is considerably easier on a road bike than when you're on the extensions on a TT/Tri bike for a collision which are much less stable, and you then have to move to the base bar and get on the brakes on a potentially damaged bike in your scenario. This reads as though you're arguing against tri bikes except you seem to be drawing the wrong conclusion at the end!

You typically make pretty reasonable arguments but your line of reasoning here seems to me like you're just not willing to accept that TT/tri bikes might be less safe than road bikes, and so you're not allowing yourself consider the full argument rationally.

To me, it is the events. Why cleave the tool away from the task? It's the two together that matter. I can do a lot of stupid things with a hammer, an impact gun, an angle grinder, or a TT bike. Or.......I can do some very productive and perfectly safe things using the tools the right ways. I think it is worth keeping the tool paired to the task.

We live lives surrounded by risks. I work in manufacturing. Yes, to your point, "engineering controls" are the first line of defense. Which would mean banning the TT bike. The risk doesn't exist because you designed it out. However, that isn't always possible. Angle grinders, welding machines, impact drivers, and TT bikes still exist. So, what do we do?

My statement about personal responsibility comes from that safety mindset. In the workplace who is responsible for your safety? Your boss? OSHA? No, you are. It's usually one of the first questions on OSHA safety quizzes, who is responsible for safety. On the bike, we are still personally responsible for ensuring our safety and the safety of others. In the workplace you train to utilize the tools on the tasks with the PPE required. Train on the bike that meets mechanical integrity and race rules with the helmet to ride in the event.

Track cycling is a different animal but seems to approach the risk the right way........you have to take a track cycling intro class to get the safety and training info needed to be a safe rider on the track.

If it's THAT big of a problem, require the same for road bikes and TT bikes to carry a USAC or USAT license.

It's a fun mental exercise to debate TT bike safety. Sure. Does it involve more risk than a road bike, sure. Manage the risk.

I have the same feeling. My thoughts changed to this with MorfTech. While I loved the idea, it wasn’t something I was comfortable promoting. Mainly because I believe, and still believe someone will be seriously injured by using the product. Sure you adapt you learn, but someone would have a lizard brain moment in the heat of competition and it would end badly.

Where do we draw the line. Fwiw, I still remember a fellow pro not using a rear brake at A race to save on aerodynamic. This was circa pre integrated brakes. I could have got him disqualified and made and a few more dollars that day it just so happens I had already gotten my hands slapped at that event for bringing up salient points about lead vehicles.

Even for me there is only so much change I can fight for in a given timeframe.

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Faster than a 'roadie', which is what rzsartin was comparing the TT bike to in his/her post. Even if the TT bike is only going 1mph faster than a road bike, slowing down to avoid a crash at Xmph on the road bike when your hands are basically on the brake levers is safer than going X+1mph on a TT bike and having to basically change your body position and move your hands off the aerobars to get to the brakes.

If a squirrel jumps in front of me on a road bike I'd be in a more stable position than I would be on the TT bike and have a better chance at not going down, possibly even hop the squirrel on the road bike. Also, my hands would also be closer to the brakes so slowing and avoid the crash is more likely on a road bike.

Your other comments don't really support your position ("Riding a TT bike isn’t any more unsafe than riding a roadie").

Unless you don't change gears, this isn't really true either. To change gears on most TT bikes, you'd have to take 1 arm off the aerobars to change gears and then move back to the bullhorns (or whatever they are called). Riding with 1 hand on the bars is not as safe as riding with 2.

While all very true, we're missing the biggest safety issue with TT and road bikes, they only have 2 wheels. We should all be mandated to ride either trikes (still kind of risky) or quad-bikes.

Ok, fine. If one is safer, the roadie is safer. But what in the world kind of logic is it when it comes to what bikes should be used in the rules?

Isn't that about what is more "sporting"?

I just feel like the modest improvement in safety isn't on par with something like improvements to the sporting aspects. Like, let's say I think it is more sporting to have hillier courses with some technical aspects to challenge skills. But that flies in the face of safety since going downhill you'll be going faster and have more chances for crashes.

Crashes in cyclocross are usually more injury to your spirit than your body, but, they literally ADD obstacles everywhere that are the sources of those crashes. Sand pits, barriers, off camber downhill weirdness.

It's just my opinion that the safety improvement for tri/TT is a bit of a sanitization. I'm much more interested in talking about the improvements to competition.

I have both a road bike and a triathlon bike. Frankly, I have much more control when riding my triathlon bike and I can steer better in the aerobars of my triathlon bike compared to on my road bike.

Part of this goes to to the fact that there really aren't anymore insanely long and low road bikes anymore so I had to slam the stem, use an aftermarket 5mm top cap and a steep and long stem. All of which compromises the way the bike was designed to ride. Frankly, the bottom of the drops is nearly in line with the top of my front wheels. Mostly the the time I have my hands on the insides of the hoods and the only thing holding the handlebars are my pinky.

On my triathlon bike on the other hand, I have full control of the steering since my elbow is making full contact with the pads and my hands are actually holding on the the extension, even im really holding on with three fingers. There is significantly more points of contacts when I am riding my triathlon bike hence giving me much more control of the bike.

Banning triathlon bikes will just gets more people to ride the same way I ride my road bike just so they could get around the rules to get an aerodynamic advantage. All it will do is make a market for 30mm wide road bars and -30 degree, 120mm long stems just so people could get tucked on their road bike.

Put everyone on a Lime bike. Then it will be “cheap” and “fair” and “safe”.

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Trent Nix
Owned and operated Tri Shop
F.I.S.T. Advanced Certified Fitter | Retul Master Certified Fitter (back when those were things)

Lime bikes are electric too

Hello Ai_1 and All,

I agree with you and do not think the solution is to get rid of current tri bikes until something better comes along.

The challange is to visualize something better and then make it.

http://www.morf-tech.com/

Looks like Morf is still out there .... I have them on my bike ... brakes are always under you hands ... and shipping with hydraulic brakes is a breeze ... no disconnection ... just loosen and drop the bars in the aero configuration.

But .... still have to get into an optimum head down position ... and glasses using prism mirrors (View-Speed) to see ahead are banned in some race venues.

Also tucking reduces power ...

It is worth considering that TT bikes can be improved in performance and comfort for the cyclist.

It seems there should be engineering and materials solutions that would mostly eliminate the fine art of fitting the cyclist to the bike in what is usually a compromised position.

verb
gerund or present participle: contorting

1. 
   twist or bend out of the normal shape.
   "a spasm of pain contorted his face"
   

Perhaps without contorting the cyclist's position ...

https://www.mdpi.com/...-3417/10/18/6546/htm

Abstract

Cyclists usually define their posture according to performance and comfort requirements. However, when modifying their posture, cyclists experience a trade-off between these requirements.

In this research, an optimization methodology is developed to select the posture of cyclists giving the best compromise between performance and comfort.

Performance was defined as the race time estimated from the power delivery capacity and resistive forces. Comfort was characterized using pressure and vibration indices. The optimization methodology was implemented to select the aerobars’ height for five cyclists riding on 20-km time-trial races with different wind speed and road grade conditions. The results showed that the reduction of the aerobars’ height improved the drag area (−10.7% ± 3.1%) and deteriorated the power delivery capacity (−9.5% ± 5.4%), pressure on the saddle (+16.5% ± 11.5%), and vibrations on the saddle (+6.5% ± 4.0%) for all the tested cyclists.

It was observed that the vibrations on the saddle imposed the greatest constraint for the cyclists, limiting the feasible exposure time and, in some cases, modifying the result obtained if the posture was selected considering only performance.

It was concluded that optimal posture selection should be performed specifically for each cyclist and race condition due to the dependence of the results on these factors.

Keywords: bicycle; comfort; performance; posture selection; aerodynamic drag; power delivery capacity; pressure; vibrations

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Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster

Okay, boomer.

I forgot Pez existed. Now I can go back to forgetting again.