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Going from Quarq to Power2Max
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I have been using Quarqs for almost a decade, and have one on each bike. I am looking to flip one of my older units (53/39, 130BCD, 175mm) and get a 52/36, 110BCD, 172.5mm crank.

While getting another Quarq to replace it would make sense, doing so will take a bunch of time (customs would be crazy if i ship it to where I am now; it would be a lot lower if i ship it to my domicile in a different country but I wont be there till Jan 2021 most likely). I can pick up a Power2Max locally, which makes it very appealing.

The P2M also has some additional metrics which could be interesting - especially when it comes to pedaling dynamics. I have some nerve issues in my right leg and want to monitor them a little more closely.

This would result in one of my bikes having a P2M and 2 others having a Quarq. From what I can see, they are close enough in power readings and being off by a few watts isnt the end of the world for me.

Anyone have any experiences or see any reason for me to NOT get a P2M?

TIA!


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Those who are slower than me suck.
Those who are faster than me dope
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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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Everyone loves p2max powermeters, never seen a single bad comment about them. Which version are you getting I have the old type s rock solid, but I would have liked to not use coin batteries, that is fixed in the newer versions with rechargeable batt.
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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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Most of my athletes use either P2Max or Quarq and the distinction is simple:

Europe based - Power2Max
America based - Quarq

The quality is similar (very good), it is all about availability and customer support in the area.

Two different power meters may lead to some paralysis-by-analysis situations, but you can probably work it out.
Choosing a lead unit and only doing testing and "quality" session with the chosen PM is a good idea to begin with.

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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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I've always used P2M. Great customer service. I have one of their original units, replaced with a newer unit and they continue to improve the product (battery replacement cover and metrics).

http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com
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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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Fantastic - thank you for that.

Looks like there is no real downside to getting the P2M. Which is good - I am trying to build up my Factor LS bike and the P2M is available now, whereas I will have to wait quite a while for the Quarq.


--
Those who are slower than me suck.
Those who are faster than me dope
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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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Are P2Ms significantly heavier?

I know there are a couple of lighter options (K-force?), but it seems like the Quarqs are about 100 grams lighter from my research, and near 200+ versus the heavier FSA P2Maxs.
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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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I had a Quarq since 2012. Loved it. In recent years it was my goto for aero testing which brings out all the flaws of a PM. Never an issue.

I got the bike stolen so decided to go P2Max. It's been flawless. Again I use it for aerotesting. The two units give me near identical numbers

I'd say the only difference I see is more stable "offset" numbers with the P2M when I calibrate. Maybe they are not the same units, so maybe this is meaningless, but it gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling.

Very happy with P2M
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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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guadzilla wrote:
Anyone have any experiences or see any reason for me to NOT get a P2M?

Not me. I ditched all of my Quarqs when my Red & Elsa units kept giving me power spikes and dropouts. I got tired of using their good customer service. I don't know what P2M's customer service is like because my units have never given me an issue. I'm glad I made the switch.
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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [tomekbielany] [ In reply to ]
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tomekbielany wrote:
Most of my athletes use either P2Max or Quarq and the distinction is simple:

Europe based - Power2Max
America based - Quarq

The quality is similar (very good), it is all about availability and customer support in the area.

Two different power meters may lead to some paralysis-by-analysis situations, but you can probably work it out.
Choosing a lead unit and only doing testing and "quality" session with the chosen PM is a good idea to begin with.

Agree with most of what you say except for the "paralysis by analysis" phrase. If two power meters are both accurate, it doesn't matter if they are from two different brands. Both Quarq & P2M have good reputations for accuracy and it shouldn't matter to the OP which one he uses in which situation.

From my limited testing with the five power meters and two smart trainers in our household, generally either they're accurate and agree with one another (3 Quarqs, Assioma Duo, Saris H3) or they're pretty far off and not to be trusted (Stages 1-sided meter, Kickr Snap). The Stages came along with a second hand bike and now has the battery removed and is used as a dumb crank with the Assiomas; and we always use one of the power meters as the power source with the Snap.

Using just one PM for critical testing makes sense but that probably is the case even if they are all from the same brand. When I've been able to test PMs in parallel (i.e. Assioma w/ Quarq, and either of the PMs with Saris) I generally only see significant variations between our good PMs at short power durations of 30 seconds or less. That difference may be important to a sprinter, but for the testing most folks do, such as for FTP/CP, it's not very important.
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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know where you are located but Power2Max in North America is in Canada.

With that said, I'm in the US and have 4 P2Ms and at least 5 of my friends have them as well. None of us had any problems getting them through customs.
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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [cielo] [ In reply to ]
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cielo wrote:
Are P2Ms significantly heavier?

I know there are a couple of lighter options (K-force?), but it seems like the Quarqs are about 100 grams lighter from my research, and near 200+ versus the heavier FSA P2Maxs.

So from what i have researched, the Quarq spider is 125gm whereas the P2M one is 175gm. The Quarq carbon arms are 561gm whereas the Praxis Zayante carbon arms seem to be a mere 408gm (which seems really low, to be honest!).

tomekbielany wrote:
Two different power meters may lead to some paralysis-by-analysis situations, but you can probably work it out.
Choosing a lead unit and only doing testing and "quality" session with the chosen PM is a good idea to begin with.

I am not really that obsessed with that level of precision in my numbers anymore. If my training is at 4-5W above or below where it needs to be, it isnt going to be the end of the world. Besides, there is no guarantee that 2 different Quarq meters are identical anyway. So that isnt such a big deal for me. Besides, my race bike and my TT bike will both have Quarqs - only the gravel bike will be different.


--
Those who are slower than me suck.
Those who are faster than me dope
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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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The BIG advantage with Quarq is the ability to easily check and adjust the calibration of the PM yourself. Quarq will do it for you if you send it to them, but if you have accurately measured weight and the Quarq app on your phone it's a pretty easy process to do yourself.
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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [kangelly] [ In reply to ]
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You can change it in the P2M too.




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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [rijndael] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks! Good to know.
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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [kangelly] [ In reply to ]
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kangelly wrote:
The BIG advantage with Quarq is the ability to easily check and adjust the calibration of the PM yourself. Quarq will do it for you if you send it to them, but if you have accurately measured weight and the Quarq app on your phone it's a pretty easy process to do yourself.


I thought Quarq ended that practice a few years ago. I tried to do it with a Riken/Elsa era PM, and it wasn't working. Using Qalvin. Both app and desktop. I contacted Quarq and they said they'd disabled it on newer firmware versions since their new calibration process is far better.

I gave away my certified weight.

Did they bring it back?
Last edited by: trail: Sep 24, 20 15:01
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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Damn! I've just been checking my calibration using the offset on my Garmin with a weight. It's been stable, so I haven't needed to change the slope. I'm disappointed to learn they dropped that feature.
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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the inputs, everyone.

Based on this and what I have read elsewhere, it seems that there wont be a big issue with having 1 P2M with a couple of other Quarqs (I cant believe I am only down to 2 more - I have 5 at one point!).

FWIW, the Praxis Zayante arms + P2M meter weigh 575gm, and the Quarq DZero with carbon arms weights 561gm. I'll keep the Quarqs on my Venge and my Shiv, and put the P2M on the Factor, which is mostly going to be ridden for longer endurance rides.


--
Those who are slower than me suck.
Those who are faster than me dope
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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [kangelly] [ In reply to ]
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kangelly wrote:
The BIG advantage with Quarq is the ability to easily check and adjust the calibration of the PM yourself. Quarq will do it for you if you send it to them, but if you have accurately measured weight and the Quarq app on your phone it's a pretty easy process to do yourself.

I must be missing something here. How is having to do any calibration an advantage? And, again, I might be missing swim thing but I never once calibrated my P2M and was working off the assumption I didn’t need to.
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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
How is having to do any calibration an advantage?

I don't use it, but I'd imagine that user calibrations could be handy if you want to try and align multiple PMs.
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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [rijndael] [ In reply to ]
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I have multiple PM's between my GF and myself, I put them against each other and they all agree within a couple watts.

2 X Powertap
4 X P2M
2 X Garmin Vector 3
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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [jaretj] [ In reply to ]
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My PT and Quarq were different enough (about 8w @ 200w), probably due to measurement location differences, that I considered trying re-calibration them to match. In the end, I didn't.
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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Having the ability to check the calibration and then if it off to adjust it is the advantage. Many PMs don't even allow you to check the calibration yourself. Once you get a known weight, it is a really easy process. You just hang the weight off the pedal spindle with the cranks parallel to the ground with the brakes on. Then you compare the zero offsets with and without the weight. I usually do it at least one a year. Maybe being a scientist has made me anal about measuring things!
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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [kangelly] [ In reply to ]
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kangelly wrote:
Having the ability to check the calibration and then if it off to adjust it is the advantage. Many PMs don't even allow you to check the calibration yourself. Once you get a known weight, it is a really easy process. You just hang the weight off the pedal spindle with the cranks parallel to the ground with the brakes on. Then you compare the zero offsets with and without the weight. I usually do it at least one a year. Maybe being a scientist has made me anal about measuring things!
Yeah, that’s definitely the scientist in you. If dcrainmaker tells me a PM doesn’t require calibration, I’m good. :)
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Re: Going from Quarq to Power2Max [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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I'm a little jealous!
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