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Re: “I hit a deer” [CallMeMaybe] [ In reply to ]
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CallMeMaybe wrote:
But how many implausible facts will the jury be asked to believe?


i'm in no way advocating that this story is believeable, but doesn't one have to prove to a jury "BEYOND a reasonable doubt?" i've sat on a DUI jury and some of the "implausible" things the defense attorney was asking us to believe were definitely designed to create threads of doubt, because that's all it takes. he only had to convince one of us of a tiny little possibility of doubt. the burden of proof on the state is exceptionally high, not so much on the defense...right?

ETA - if this ever goes that far, which it probably won't
Last edited by: jkhayc: Jul 12, 21 13:17
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Re: “I hit a deer” [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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You’re right. I’m thinking about it in terms of a civil case. But the defendant here has pretty much admitted being the cause-in-fact of the victim’s death. I don’t think there is any claim that the victim was killed by anyone else’s car or any other cause.

So the defendant in this case is trying to find an excuse for it. His version of events seem less believable with every far-fetched scenario he proposes, right? He says that he wasn’t distracted, although cell phone data shows otherwise. He says the “suicidal” victim jumped in front of his car, although the investigation apparently showed the driver was outside of his lane. The skid marks on Highway 14 were visible. He claims he thought the victim was a deer, but the victim’s glasses were found in his car.

Do these things create reasonable doubt? I think they do the reverse of it. I think they highlight facts to show the AG was driving dangerously and knew or should have known the victim was a person.

I don’t practice criminal law, so maybe I’m wrong about this.
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Re: “I hit a deer” [CallMeMaybe] [ In reply to ]
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CallMeMaybe wrote:
You’re right. I’m thinking about it in terms of a civil case. But the defendant here has pretty much admitted being the cause-in-fact of the victim’s death. I don’t think there is any claim that the victim was killed by anyone else’s car or any other cause.

So the defendant in this case is trying to find an excuse for it. His version of events seem less believable with every far-fetched scenario he proposes, right? He says that he wasn’t distracted, although cell phone data shows otherwise. He says the “suicidal” victim jumped in front of his car, although the investigation apparently showed the driver was outside of his lane. The skid marks on Highway 14 were visible. He claims he thought the victim was a deer, but the victim’s glasses were found in his car.

Do these things create reasonable doubt? I think they do the reverse of it. I think they highlight facts to show the AG was driving dangerously and knew or should have known the victim was a person.

I don’t practice criminal law, so maybe I’m wrong about this.

Given that everything you mentioned seems to be ready to come in as facts that are hard to dispute, if the defense then tries to blame the victim ("he was clearly suicidal, as you heard his cousin testify, and may have jumped in front of the car"), and I were a juror, I would be beyond offended and would want to hang his ass for it.
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Re: “I hit a deer” [DieselPete] [ In reply to ]
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DieselPete wrote:
CallMeMaybe wrote:
You’re right. I’m thinking about it in terms of a civil case. But the defendant here has pretty much admitted being the cause-in-fact of the victim’s death. I don’t think there is any claim that the victim was killed by anyone else’s car or any other cause.

So the defendant in this case is trying to find an excuse for it. His version of events seem less believable with every far-fetched scenario he proposes, right? He says that he wasn’t distracted, although cell phone data shows otherwise. He says the “suicidal” victim jumped in front of his car, although the investigation apparently showed the driver was outside of his lane. The skid marks on Highway 14 were visible. He claims he thought the victim was a deer, but the victim’s glasses were found in his car.

Do these things create reasonable doubt? I think they do the reverse of it. I think they highlight facts to show the AG was driving dangerously and knew or should have known the victim was a person.

I don’t practice criminal law, so maybe I’m wrong about this.


Given that everything you mentioned seems to be ready to come in as facts that are hard to dispute, if the defense then tries to blame the victim ("he was clearly suicidal, as you heard his cousin testify, and may have jumped in front of the car"), and I were a juror, I would be beyond offended and would want to hang his ass for it.

Have you served on a jury? I've only actually been selected once but showed up for jury duty twice, both times in Arizona. If I were to be judged by a "selection of my peers," I wouldn't bet on hardly anything.
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Re: “I hit a deer” [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
DieselPete wrote:
CallMeMaybe wrote:
You’re right. I’m thinking about it in terms of a civil case. But the defendant here has pretty much admitted being the cause-in-fact of the victim’s death. I don’t think there is any claim that the victim was killed by anyone else’s car or any other cause.

So the defendant in this case is trying to find an excuse for it. His version of events seem less believable with every far-fetched scenario he proposes, right? He says that he wasn’t distracted, although cell phone data shows otherwise. He says the “suicidal” victim jumped in front of his car, although the investigation apparently showed the driver was outside of his lane. The skid marks on Highway 14 were visible. He claims he thought the victim was a deer, but the victim’s glasses were found in his car.

Do these things create reasonable doubt? I think they do the reverse of it. I think they highlight facts to show the AG was driving dangerously and knew or should have known the victim was a person.

I don’t practice criminal law, so maybe I’m wrong about this.


Given that everything you mentioned seems to be ready to come in as facts that are hard to dispute, if the defense then tries to blame the victim ("he was clearly suicidal, as you heard his cousin testify, and may have jumped in front of the car"), and I were a juror, I would be beyond offended and would want to hang his ass for it.


Have you served on a jury? I've only actually been selected once but showed up for jury duty twice, both times in Arizona. If I were to be judged by a "selection of my peers," I wouldn't bet on hardly anything.

My father was a cop (detective) and testified in hundreds of cases in his 30 years on the force. I remember him saying that if you were ever charged with a crime, if you were guilty you'd want a jury trial and if you were innocent you'd want a bench trial.
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Re: “I hit a deer” [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
Have you served on a jury? I've only actually been selected once but showed up for jury duty twice, both times in Arizona. If I were to be judged by a "selection of my peers," I wouldn't bet on hardly anything.
I've served on a half-dozen or so juries. Always, there has been at least one person who seemed to go out of their way to rationalize why they thought the defendant was not guilty. It didn't matter what the facts and evidence were, they'd throw out some, "But what if ...........?" goofiness.

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: “I hit a deer” [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
DieselPete wrote:
CallMeMaybe wrote:
You’re right. I’m thinking about it in terms of a civil case. But the defendant here has pretty much admitted being the cause-in-fact of the victim’s death. I don’t think there is any claim that the victim was killed by anyone else’s car or any other cause.

So the defendant in this case is trying to find an excuse for it. His version of events seem less believable with every far-fetched scenario he proposes, right? He says that he wasn’t distracted, although cell phone data shows otherwise. He says the “suicidal” victim jumped in front of his car, although the investigation apparently showed the driver was outside of his lane. The skid marks on Highway 14 were visible. He claims he thought the victim was a deer, but the victim’s glasses were found in his car.

Do these things create reasonable doubt? I think they do the reverse of it. I think they highlight facts to show the AG was driving dangerously and knew or should have known the victim was a person.

I don’t practice criminal law, so maybe I’m wrong about this.


Given that everything you mentioned seems to be ready to come in as facts that are hard to dispute, if the defense then tries to blame the victim ("he was clearly suicidal, as you heard his cousin testify, and may have jumped in front of the car"), and I were a juror, I would be beyond offended and would want to hang his ass for it.

Have you served on a jury? I've only actually been selected once but showed up for jury duty twice, both times in Arizona. If I were to be judged by a "selection of my peers," I wouldn't bet on hardly anything.

I have served and have been the jury foreman (and I tell anyone who will listen that you don’t want to volunteer for that job).

.in this case, if they make the claim that it was a suicide, I’d steer the conversation toward defining the word reasonable in reasonable doubt. Wild fantasies and accusations that don’t fit the facts aren’t reasonable.
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Re: “I hit a deer” [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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The latest development: widow wants mental health records off-limits in trial, citing right to victim's privacy

https://www.keloland.com/...-ags-criminal-trial/

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin
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Re: “I hit a deer” [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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Changing plea to Guilty....no details on the plea deal yet. I did see one paper say he was avoiding jail time, but others only mention avoiding trial.

https://apnews.com/...ab575cfb9ba6e46e73a6
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Re: “I hit a deer” [ubdawg] [ In reply to ]
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I saw that he was pleading to misdemeanors. Judge will give him a fine, probation and he will be able to continue working. The wife will sue him, win a judgement against his insurance. He won't be punished as severely as you or I would.
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Re: “I hit a deer” [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]
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It is good to be a Noem simp.

Pactimo brand ambassador, ask me about promo codes
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Re: “I hit a deer” [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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RandMart wrote:
The latest development: widow wants mental health records off-limits in trial, citing right to victim's privacy

https://www.keloland.com/...-ags-criminal-trial/

Seems pretty reasonable that the defense would want to investigate and admit any evidence which may hint at suicide attempt. I don't see how the wife (her attorneys) can withhold information that's that central to a potential defense.
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Re: “I hit a deer” [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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He got speeding ticket last week - 57 in a 35 zone

https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/south-dakota-ag-speeding-ticket-days-crash-trial-79746862


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Re: “I hit a deer” [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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This criminal and lying republican finally got impeached. But, don't worry, lots of SD Republicans voted FOR criminality and to keep this scumbag in office. So much for that, uh, "law and order" party bullsh*t ...

https://www.huffpost.com/...7ac3e4b0723f80119089

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Re: “I hit a deer” [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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How in the hell can there even be any debate about this amongst the legislators? It is curious that they would support this guy just because he is GOP. That's holding the "thick brown line" :) a bit too much.
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Re: “I hit a deer” [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]
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rick_pcfl wrote:
How in the hell can there even be any debate about this amongst the legislators? It is curious that they would support this guy just because he is GOP. That's holding the "thick brown line" :) a bit too much.

Given the bare majority to impeach I have strong doubts they will hit the 2/3 to convict and remove him.

I mean come on, he killed a guy and left him in the ditch but he was only found guilty of misdemeanors, it wasn't that bad.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: “I hit a deer” [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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j p o wrote:
rick_pcfl wrote:
How in the hell can there even be any debate about this amongst the legislators? It is curious that they would support this guy just because he is GOP. That's holding the "thick brown line" :) a bit too much.


Given the bare majority to impeach I have strong doubts they will hit the 2/3 to convict and remove him.

I mean come on, he killed a guy and left him in the ditch but he was only found guilty of misdemeanors, it wasn't that bad.


https://www.nytimes.com/...nt-south-dakota.html





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The South Dakota Senate voted to remove the state’s attorney general, Jason Ravnsborg, from office on Tuesday evening in an impeachment trial after Mr. Ravnsborg fatally struck a man with his car in 2020.

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"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: “I hit a deer” [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know the exact rules because it hasn't happened to me (yet...had a very close call last year at 70 mph), but here you are allowed to take the deer home or to a butcher and eat the meat. Or you can donate it to a homeless shelter where they use it for deer chili and you get a tax write off.
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