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New integrated power meter design
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INTEGRATED DISC ROTORS
IN-BODY POWER MEASUREMENT
Road disc brakes Power meters are pretty great, in terms of stopping power, modulation preciseness and consistency. However, the very tight tolerances between pads and disc can be frustrating to set up without rub they measure the power which is transferred by the feet to the pedals rather than the intensity with which the whole human body is working and it only takes a slight ding to the rotor to have a constant noise change in ambient temperature, shape of the day in terms of being fatigued or rested or recovered from training or virusses that can be tricky to remedy., such that the measured power does not indicate the true intensity of the body.



So, a thought experiment. Why measure so far away from where the core of the body isare the pads so close to the rotor? In order to get the most significant information about the intensity of the body one should measure within the bodymechanical leverage – a big movement at the lever equals a small movement at the pads. But why do we need to measure within the body that much leverage? Because for training or racing we want to be in a certain intensity, most optimal intensity window the rotors are very small, so to be able to slow the much larger rotating mass of the wheel, we have to squeeze the rotor tightly. Therefore if we could measure the intensity of the body within the body the rotor was bigger, we could have a caliper with the pads further away, and this would be fine as we wouldn’t need as much mechanical advantage. to correct afterwards the power as measured by the power meter.
To take this to the extreme example, what if I could measure a value which gives a more exact indication of how hard the body is working in comparison with the power meterthe rotor was the size of the rim? Like the Heart Rate 622 mm in diameter. In looking at this problem, it became apparent that the Heart Rate would be an appropriate value, as laboratorium experiments had shown that the harder the body works, the higher the heartrate is. it would be possible to dispense with a separate rotor and use the rim of the wheel as the braking surface. Testing of different body sensors adhered to the body materials for the braking surface and the pads concluded that a machined aluminium surface and standard pads provides fantastic HR valuesdry weather braking. They’re not awesome in the wet — for those conditions having the braking surface further away from the wet tire/rim in the form of a separate, smaller rotor makes the best sense. Regular FTP-tests would be a thing of the past because HR does hardly change with increased fitness. But I digress.

Brake rotors Heart Rate sensor systems that almost reach a laboratorium set-up!the tires.
With the rotor being almost five times bigger than normal, the brake pads can be several millimetres clear of the braking surface without sacrificing power. This would make brake rub nonexistent even if the wheel goes a little out of true. With a smaller system with for example a breast strap and wireless radio contact to a display device this problem could be solved though. It also turns out that a well designed HR measuring system mechanical caliper can provide all the intensity information power and modulation required – no need for the usual power meters with their merely indicational value for the body intensity hydraulics. It turns out that this system would also be usable for running, such that controlling training by pace which is always cumbersome would be a thing of the past. a steel cable will do this job admirably! Testing also showed that a 32 mm tire can fit comfortably under the caliper.



So I decided to propose a system build a bike around this Heart Rate concept.

Original source: https://forum.slowtwitch.com/.../?page=unread#unread
Last edited by: longtrousers: Aug 29, 20 2:45
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Re: New integrated power meter design [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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What?

I only read about 1/3 buts its pretty incomprehensible. Not even certain if you're talking power meters or disc brakes. You seem to slide from one to the other without explaining the link...... am I just being thick today, or are you drunk?
Last edited by: Ai_1: Aug 29, 20 5:28
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Re: New integrated power meter design [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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seriously this might be the worst formatting for a post ever.

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
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Re: New integrated power meter design [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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He's taken the "rims brakes are a giant disc brake" argument and edited it (don't read the peach bits) to be about heart rate monitoring as an cromulent alternative to power meters.

Unfortunately heart rate is not a measure of power, whereas discs and rim brakes are both brakes.
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Re: New integrated power meter design [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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As soon as they start awarding trophies for the least number of heart beats in a 10k.
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Re: New integrated power meter design [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
As soon as they start awarding trophies for the least number of heart beats in a 10k.

I figure they’ll start doing that around the same time that they start giving out awards for the lowest number of strokes in a 1500.

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Re: New integrated power meter design [MattyK] [ In reply to ]
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MattyK wrote:
He's taken the "rims brakes are a giant disc brake" argument and edited it (don't read the peach bits) to be about heart rate monitoring as an cromulent alternative to power meters.

Unfortunately heart rate is not a measure of power, whereas discs and rim brakes are both brakes.

You see, here I thought I'd wasted my time deciphering some ridiculous and poorly formatted post, but I ended learning a new word! I'd never heard "cromulent" before.
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Re: New integrated power meter design [el gato] [ In reply to ]
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el gato wrote:
MattyK wrote:
He's taken the "rims brakes are a giant disc brake" argument and edited it (don't read the peach bits) to be about heart rate monitoring as an cromulent alternative to power meters.

Unfortunately heart rate is not a measure of power, whereas discs and rim brakes are both brakes.

You see, here I thought I'd wasted my time deciphering some ridiculous and poorly formatted post

You should have stopped there.
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Re: New integrated power meter design [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
You should have stopped there.

Just trying to make lemonade.
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Re: New integrated power meter design [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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My eyes hurt from that formatting...
Is this simply just suggesting a HR monitor can be used to monitor training instead og power meters?
Of course it Can, just as Well as rim brakes Can slow your bike Down. Power meters and discs are just better. People making these arguments are the same conspirathy theorists as the ones claiming we never made it to the Moon, that covid-19 is just an excuse for a fascist regime, that god exists and the Earth is flat.
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Re: New integrated power meter design [el gato] [ In reply to ]
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Cromulent is a marvellous word.
Do you know where it comes from?
Look it up you won't be dissappointed!

....although I think Matty only used it to embiggen himself.
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Re: New integrated power meter design [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:
....although I think Matty only used it to embiggen himself.

That's unpossible.
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Re: New integrated power meter design [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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longtrousers wrote:
INTEGRATED DISC ROTORS
IN-BODY POWER MEASUREMENT
Road disc brakes Power meters are pretty great, in terms of stopping power, modulation preciseness and consistency. However, the very tight tolerances between pads and disc can be frustrating to set up without rub they measure the power which is transferred by the feet to the pedals rather than the intensity with which the whole human body is working and it only takes a slight ding to the rotor to have a constant noise change in ambient temperature, shape of the day in terms of being fatigued or rested or recovered from training or virusses that can be tricky to remedy., such that the measured power does not indicate the true intensity of the body.



So, a thought experiment. Why measure so far away from where the core of the body isare the pads so close to the rotor? In order to get the most significant information about the intensity of the body one should measure within the bodymechanical leverage – a big movement at the lever equals a small movement at the pads. But why do we need to measure within the body that much leverage? Because for training or racing we want to be in a certain intensity, most optimal intensity window the rotors are very small, so to be able to slow the much larger rotating mass of the wheel, we have to squeeze the rotor tightly. Therefore if we could measure the intensity of the body within the body the rotor was bigger, we could have a caliper with the pads further away, and this would be fine as we wouldn’t need as much mechanical advantage. to correct afterwards the power as measured by the power meter.
To take this to the extreme example, what if I could measure a value which gives a more exact indication of how hard the body is working in comparison with the power meterthe rotor was the size of the rim? Like the Heart Rate 622 mm in diameter. In looking at this problem, it became apparent that the Heart Rate would be an appropriate value, as laboratorium experiments had shown that the harder the body works, the higher the heartrate is. it would be possible to dispense with a separate rotor and use the rim of the wheel as the braking surface. Testing of different body sensors adhered to the body materials for the braking surface and the pads concluded that a machined aluminium surface and standard pads provides fantastic HR valuesdry weather braking. They’re not awesome in the wet — for those conditions having the braking surface further away from the wet tire/rim in the form of a separate, smaller rotor makes the best sense. Regular FTP-tests would be a thing of the past because HR does hardly change with increased fitness. But I digress.

Brake rotors Heart Rate sensor systems that almost reach a laboratorium set-up!the tires.
With the rotor being almost five times bigger than normal, the brake pads can be several millimetres clear of the braking surface without sacrificing power. This would make brake rub nonexistent even if the wheel goes a little out of true. With a smaller system with for example a breast strap and wireless radio contact to a display device this problem could be solved though. It also turns out that a well designed HR measuring system mechanical caliper can provide all the intensity information power and modulation required – no need for the usual power meters with their merely indicational value for the body intensity hydraulics. It turns out that this system would also be usable for running, such that controlling training by pace which is always cumbersome would be a thing of the past. a steel cable will do this job admirably! Testing also showed that a 32 mm tire can fit comfortably under the caliper.



So I decided to propose a system build a bike around this Heart Rate concept.

Original source: https://forum.slowtwitch.com/.../?page=unread#unread
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Re: New integrated power meter design [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Morelock wrote:
seriously this might be the worst formatting for a post ever.

X2
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Re: New integrated power meter design [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
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Morelock wrote:
seriously this might be the worst formatting for a post ever.

I don't think the formatting is the biggest problem with the post.
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Re: New integrated power meter design [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:
Cromulent is a marvellous word.
Do you know where it comes from?
Look it up you won't be dissappointed!

....although I think Matty only used it to embiggen himself.

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Re: New integrated power meter design [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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The OP is either so much smarter or so much crazier than me. Funny thing is I'll never know, but I can guess which one.
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Re: New integrated power meter design [Melt] [ In reply to ]
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.. there is already an integrated power meter in all life forms with readable consciousness .. it's called fatigue ..

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the s u r f b o a r d of the K u r p f a l z is the r o a d b i k e .. oSo >>
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Re: New integrated power meter design [sausskross] [ In reply to ]
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sausskross wrote:
.. there is already an integrated power meter in all life forms with readable consciousness .. it's called fatigue ..

Yes RPE (Rate of Perceived Exertion) is another way to control or to document intensity.

To all of you who criticed the format of my original post: you're absolutely right. Originally I had the text which is now orange formatted as crossed-out, but that is not part of the formatting possibilities of this forum.
Even if it would have been crossed-out, it would indeed still have been cumbersome to read. Maybe my English is not great either. Sorry for that.

As some of you mentioned, I posted the way I did to show the analogy which I saw between the relation rim/disc in braking and HR/PM in exertion measurement.
Of course this post was (although maybe bad satire) at least partly satire or irony. About whether the analogy contains a grain of truth, everyones opinion should be respected.
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Re: New integrated power meter design [sausskross] [ In reply to ]
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sausskross wrote:
.. there is already an integrated power meter in all life forms with readable consciousness .. it's called fatigue ..

Ah but you're wrong!
Fatigue doesn't measure output, it indicates the effect of that output on the system that produced it. With less training, poor sleep, illness, lack of nutrition/water, high temperatures, or high altitude, etc.... you cxan have the same level of fatigue woth a lot less output.
And is the intensity or the volume of output being "measured"? Power doesn't measure the energy used, just the rate of use.

...In case you were serious

Of course HR has many of the same issues. Though it does provide an objective measure of something.
Last edited by: Ai_1: Aug 31, 20 1:16
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Re: New integrated power meter design [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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.. you are right .. this internal “power meter“ isn't objective .. it's personal and variable to conditions .. to calibrate, read and go ahead with it's “data output“ is harder than to read numbers .. ;-)

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the s u r f b o a r d of the K u r p f a l z is the r o a d b i k e .. oSo >>
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