Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron)

Aug 24, 20 8:55

Post #1 of 23 (2185 views)

So am I am an fairly serious amateur Triathlete. Currently competing at 70.3 race distance.

Looking into the schedule for 2021 I want to tick off a Full Ironman.

What I would like, is some advice on how long I should leave it between races's (70.3 to Ironman) to get maximum performance - but not drag out the training too long so I get board or burnt out. Also a curve ball I'm getting married in the middle of September so that rules out race's in September and October, then we are into winter and I would of gone two months without proper training so Nov and Dec are ruled out realistically.

My plan was to race the 70.3 in Marbella end of April - then 1 weeks rest - then 3 weeks training - 1 easy week and race Hamburg Ironman on the 6th of June.

Would coaches recommend having races this close together? Or if my training plan is executed properly then this shouldn't cause a problem?

Please give me as much advice as possible.

Thanks
James

Last edited by: Jwwilkins: Aug 24, 20 9:45

Re: Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron) [Jwwilkins] [ In reply to ]

Aug 24, 20 11:39

Post #2 of 23 (2137 views)

Are you saying you want to RACE the 70.3? Or just participate? If you are just participating and can treat it as a training day for a full distance race, and can suppress the competitive urge to really smash the event, then it could work, assuming you are otherwise following a full distance training plan.

If you are trying to race to the best of your ability at both, then no this isn't going to be optimal.

Re: Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron) [Jwwilkins] [ In reply to ]

Aug 24, 20 11:48

Post #3 of 23 (2130 views)

What are your goal times for the 70.3 and 140.6?

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Re: Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron) [g_lev] [ In reply to ]

Aug 24, 20 13:02

Post #4 of 23 (2088 views)

Yes I would like to race both..... but happy not to if races don’t full into place with then the intent to race the full.

How long in between do you think I should leave it?

Re: Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron) [plant_based] [ In reply to ]

Aug 24, 20 13:06

Post #5 of 23 (2080 views)

I would be looking to do under 4.45 and under 10 depending on weather and course, that would be my rough aim.

Re: Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron) [Jwwilkins] [ In reply to ]

Aug 24, 20 13:06

Post #6 of 23 (2079 views)

Jwwilkins wrote:

Yes I would like to race both..... but happy not to if races don’t full into place with then the intent to race the full.

How long in between do you think I should leave it?

If your goal is to do your best in both, then I would space them months apart. Enough time to reset your training from 70.3-oriented to 140.6-oriented. The type of training you do for each, if the goal is optimal racing, is different and not entirely compatible for ideal outcomes at both.

Re: Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron) [Jwwilkins] [ In reply to ]

Aug 24, 20 13:11

Post #7 of 23 (2074 views)

It's plenty of time. Most of the pre-made plans will include a 70.3 about 1-2 months before a full. I would assume the 70.3 would be a "B" priority race, so you're not going to go into it fully tapered (maybe just at the end of an easier training week), so will need to adjust your expectations appropriately. Generally speaking the last 2-3 weeks leading into a 140.6 is going to be tapering down and shedding fatigue anyway, so you if you're tired and sore after the 70.3, just take it easy a little longer. The last month of training leading into 140.6 isn't going to be what determines your outcome.

Re: Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron) [Jwwilkins] [ In reply to ]

Aug 24, 20 13:40

Post #8 of 23 (2045 views)

Jwwilkins wrote:

I would be looking to do under 4.45 and under 10 depending on weather and course, that would be my rough aim.

Sounds reasonable

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

Re: Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron) [mgreer] [ In reply to ]

Aug 24, 20 13:43

Post #9 of 23 (2040 views)

I’m agreed that it can easily be done with a shorter half week taper for the 70.3 and 5 days recovery afterwards before training properly again the next weekend. The only caveat is that this assumes you are already training for an Ironman load, so a 70.3 is not putting enormous strain on your body. I’ve done this twice and races well in all 4 races.

Re: Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron) [Jwwilkins] [ In reply to ]

Aug 24, 20 14:17

Post #10 of 23 (2014 views)

My biggest question would be where do you live? You'll need to do the majority of your IM volume before that 70.3 race. Your 3 weeks of training afterwards will be putting the finishing touches on specificity. You'll have to be doing pretty long rides in March and April. Perfect if you live in South Texas like I do. Could be a problem in other parts of the country.

Otherwise, definitely possible.

Mark Saroni
____________________________________________________________
COACHING | TRAINING PLANS
MS Kinesiology | USAT LII | USAC L3

Re: Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron) [Jwwilkins] [ In reply to ]

Aug 24, 20 15:10

Post #11 of 23 (1987 views)

Just my opinion - I think folks on this thread are over analyzing this. How old are you? Assuming you are prepared and work the 70.3 (race it!!) into your full IM schedule you should have no problem. I'm 60 and would do it.

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Post deleted by Luca Brasi [ In reply to ]

Aug 24, 20 16:59

Post #12 of 23 (1953 views)

Re: Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron) [Jwwilkins] [ In reply to ]

Aug 24, 20 19:22

Post #13 of 23 (1883 views)

the fitter you are the closer they can be. The younger you are the closer they can be.
5-8 weeks is fine maybe that 7-10 window would be better

"it depends" is the actual answer to your question though.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Re: Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron) [g_lev] [ In reply to ]

Aug 25, 20 0:59

Post #14 of 23 (1839 views)

That's been really helpful thank you.

Last edited by: Jwwilkins: Aug 25, 20 1:04

Re: Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron) [Mark S] [ In reply to ]

Aug 25, 20 1:03

Post #15 of 23 (1837 views)

I live in London so no all year round training on the roads Jan and Feb will be spent on the Turbo and then half of March depending on weather. Usually by April I have rustled up the courage to brace the cold and hit the roads.

That was my aim to do the majority of long rides and heavy weeks training in the lead up to the 70.3.

Re: Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron) [Jwwilkins] [ In reply to ]

Aug 25, 20 3:46

Post #16 of 23 (1793 views)

I have done most of my IM races with a similar time 70.3 race before hand. Depending on the goal my coach has let me freshen up a little to race maximum for the 70.3 but it all revolves around my IM. Sometimes I will race under more fatigue than others but I always take the timing chip off and run an extra lap easy of the 70.3 course if a two lap course.

I think you will need to prioritise your IM but I enjoy racing 3-4 weeks before as I am fit and race based to my fatigue levels.

Re: Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron) [Jwwilkins] [ In reply to ]

Aug 25, 20 5:15

Post #17 of 23 (1755 views)

I'm planning on doing Blue Ridge 70.3 in Early June and then if I can register do IM Maryland in September but I could definitely get by with less time between them. Just a matter of proximity and convenience for me. Your 5 weeks sounds like the ideal amount but as other said you will probably want to have a lot of the big 140.6 volume in before the 70.3 and you may not be optimally trained for the half distance but will still be able to put forth a full race effort that day

Re: Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron) [g_lev] [ In reply to ]

Aug 25, 20 6:16

Post #18 of 23 (1727 views)

Just out if ignorance, obviously there’s some recovery time from the 70.3, But are half and full distance plans really that different? - they’re both long distance endurance events. I’d go as far as saying that if you Can do a sub 5 70.3, you could easily do the full distance (not sub 10, But in general), main difference being the pacing and the amount of energy you need to take in. And the mental side of it of course

Re: Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron) [brasch] [ In reply to ]

Aug 25, 20 9:41

Post #19 of 23 (1676 views)

I'd agree with you here. If you're fit, you're fit. A half and a full are actually pretty similar in terms of energy demands for everyone but the pointy end of pro racing. In the world of sports, once you're over 2 hours of racing, it's mostly the same stuff. Again, the pointy end of pro racing is different but for most age groupers- training is training and fit is fit. I find that most age groupers, even fast ones, training for an Ironman forces them to train "more" and thus they gain fitness. Key is in shedding the fatigue before the 70.3 to have a good race there without detraining too much for the full.

Mark Saroni
____________________________________________________________
COACHING | TRAINING PLANS
MS Kinesiology | USAT LII | USAC L3

Re: Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron) [Mark S] [ In reply to ]

Aug 25, 20 9:57

Post #20 of 23 (1665 views)

I’d obviously a couple of 30k long runs, just to get the feeling and maybe practice the running pace for the full distance to get familier with the pace (42k are a long time looking a Watch trying to keep pace right), But other than, I don’t personally see the point, but i dont race to race, i race to have fun or a goal for my training, otherwise I Can’t keep motivation in the long run and I’ll get fat and die early. And I dont want to die early.
A friend of mine did want to go from 15hours/week to 30hours/week when switching from half to full, because it’s twice the distance. He ended up with runner’s knee and withdrew from a full ironman race 80k into the bike because the pain was unbearable.
I’d say, aside from a few longer long runs, just stay with the half distance plan if Racing both. It’s easier to lower intensity for longer than increasing intensity for a shorter race

Re: Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron) [brasch] [ In reply to ]

Aug 25, 20 10:26

Post #21 of 23 (1656 views)

brasch wrote:

Just out if ignorance, obviously there’s some recovery time from the 70.3, But are half and full distance plans really that different? - they’re both long distance endurance events. I’d go as far as saying that if you Can do a sub 5 70.3, you could easily do the full distance (not sub 10, But in general), main difference being the pacing and the amount of energy you need to take in. And the mental side of it of course

That's why I was asking about performance goals. If you are just here to complete, then they can be very similar. If the goal is to win... well... yes they would be very different.

Re: Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron) [brasch] [ In reply to ]

Aug 25, 20 10:49

Post #22 of 23 (1641 views)

A half is more like a long Olympic distance race than an IM. The training includes more practice at sweet-spot and threshold development for both the bike and run.

Because of the higher energy demand of the higher training efforts in a 70.3 they are generally shorter in duration.

IM is more about developing abilities at 65-70%

Re: Coach Advice: Time Between Races (70:3 - Full Iron) [Jwwilkins] [ In reply to ]

Aug 25, 20 14:45

Post #23 of 23 (1572 views)

Not a coach, but to tag along on the plans not being too different, I'll get up to 75 mile bike rides and 15-16 mile runs in a 70.3 plan. Fulls, I'll do 3 centuries, maybe one of them a double metric and not run over 20, usually stopping at 18 or so. Really not that much difference in volume. In your situation you'd need to have some more volume built in before the 1/2 than you would for a stand alone, but I could easily do a mini taper, race the 1/2, recover for a week and then do the final IM block with 3 big weekends before tapering down for IM, but my tapers are generally a little shorter as I'll pull the run volume back about 3 weeks out, but still ride big until 2 weeks out with my last big ride 14 days from the race.

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