I think it will have to have disc brakes. That’s where all the wheel manufacturers are going I find it hard to believe they wouldn’t. The bike won’t sell if no one can get current wheels for it.
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Re: What Manufacuters are the Tri Super Bikes ?? [stevej]
[ In reply to ]
Re: What Manufacuters are the Tri Super Bikes ?? [Gatineau Gator]
[ In reply to ]
Gatineau Gator wrote:
stevej wrote:
Gatineau Gator wrote:
Hi fellows, Without starting the Third World War on this forum, it appears that the SC has not had much upgrading done to it since the Armstrong years....am I wrong on that one?
I will duck into my bunker now :(
Oh...on a side note, I appreciate all of the input on this thread, I am certainly learning :)
GG
Lance was never on the gen 2 SC which was released in summer of 2013 as a 2014 model year.
Gen 2 had several improvements over gen 1:
- front end (less hardware, easier to adjust, more range for adjustability, mono extension for micro pad x adjustments, easier to break down, bosses for bta cage/bottle)
- Faster than gen 1 (according to trek white paper)
- rear brake fine adjustment (gen 1 only had this on the front brake)
- seatpost clamping improvement
- Internal seatpost mount for Di2 battery
Hello, thank you for the update.
What do you fellows think the SC Gen 3 would require to make it a modern up-to-date superbike?
With my limited knowledge on tri-bikes, I think a disc brake option would be the first place to start :)
GG
better storage, including hydration.
more adjustable cockpit
disc brakes are a no-brainer It's not that they are faster, just that is the new standard for high end bikes
iso-speed suspension in the rear end (and maybe the front too?)
aerodynamically equivalent to the current generation.
increased tire clearance
Swimming Workout of the Day:
Favourite Swim Sets:
2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Re: What Manufacuters are the Tri Super Bikes ?? [exxxviii]
[ In reply to ]
exxxviii wrote:
Gatineau Gator wrote:
Any reason why the CUBE Aerium C68 was never mentioned in the thread?The market has changed significantly over the past few years, and now pretty much every manufacturer has a halo bike that probably qualifies as a Super Bike. Some are more unique, like the Omni, Ventum, Dimond, and PX. But, even the P5D, which is pretty traditional, is still likely the fastest bike you can buy.
i would think cube falls closer into global supplier than into parleee segment .In the european bike market which is aobout twice as big a than usa market they are a serious player.
Re: What Manufacuters are the Tri Super Bikes ?? [JasoninHalifax]
[ In reply to ]
JasoninHalifax wrote:
Gatineau Gator wrote:
stevej wrote:
Gatineau Gator wrote:
Hi fellows, Without starting the Third World War on this forum, it appears that the SC has not had much upgrading done to it since the Armstrong years....am I wrong on that one?
I will duck into my bunker now :(
Oh...on a side note, I appreciate all of the input on this thread, I am certainly learning :)
GG
Lance was never on the gen 2 SC which was released in summer of 2013 as a 2014 model year.
Gen 2 had several improvements over gen 1:
- front end (less hardware, easier to adjust, more range for adjustability, mono extension for micro pad x adjustments, easier to break down, bosses for bta cage/bottle)
- Faster than gen 1 (according to trek white paper)
- rear brake fine adjustment (gen 1 only had this on the front brake)
- seatpost clamping improvement
- Internal seatpost mount for Di2 battery
Hello, thank you for the update.
What do you fellows think the SC Gen 3 would require to make it a modern up-to-date superbike?
With my limited knowledge on tri-bikes, I think a disc brake option would be the first place to start :)
GG
better storage, including hydration.
more adjustable cockpit
disc brakes are a no-brainer It's not that they are faster, just that is the new standard for high end bikes
iso-speed suspension in the rear end (and maybe the front too?)
aerodynamically equivalent to the current generation.
increased tire clearance
I just checked the Trek website and no upgrades to the 2021 SC that I can see; definitely no disc brakes :(
Re: What Manufacuters are the Tri Super Bikes ?? [T2LV]
[ In reply to ]
T2LV wrote:
Gatineau Gator wrote:
Hi fellows, Without starting the Third World War on this forum, it appears that the SC has not had much upgrading done to it since the Armstrong years....am I wrong on that one?
I will duck into my bunker now :(
Oh...on a side note, I appreciate all of the input on this thread, I am certainly learning :)
GG
The idea that newer is better is based on the notion that every technology can be improved upon. Bikes in the last 10 years have nearly hit a ceiling when it comes to gains. The difference between a 10 year old poor mans TT bike and a top of the line 2020 TT bike is likely down to a matter of seconds. Bikes for the large part have hit a ceiling. There are component upgrades that have made bikes faster but the frame is largely as fast as its going to get. Thats the reason why there are so many super bikes out there. There is very little that a large company like Cervelo knows about frames that a smaller niche company doesn't know as well. Going with some of the top bikes is going to be a 1% difference. Your bike choice should be based on YOUR needs and your personal preferences. The P5d is without question faster than the PX series......assuming you have no wind visible nutrition. Thus if you carry a ton of stuff on your frame a PX will be faster than a P5 despite a less aero and heavier frame.
I bought a Cervelo P5d because I liked the color, the look and thats what I'm use to. But my bike splits are not tangibly faster than my 2015 P5 nor would I expect them to be much faster than my 2011 Speed Concept if they were all set up the same.
Bit of a nitpicky point on an old thread, but there is a big difference between your 2015 P5 and a “10 year old poor man’s TT bike”
Personally, going from a pretty budget optimized old aluminum Felt S22 (GP5ks, latex tubes, wheel cover, Flo front) to a 2019 P5d last year was a revelation. Much more than a matter of seconds!
That being said, were the gains between the P5d and something used for half the price that significant? Probably not.
Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
Re: What Manufacuters are the Tri Super Bikes ?? [MI_Mumps]
[ In reply to ]
MI_Mumps wrote:
T2LV wrote:
Gatineau Gator wrote:
Hi fellows, Without starting the Third World War on this forum, it appears that the SC has not had much upgrading done to it since the Armstrong years....am I wrong on that one?
I will duck into my bunker now :(
Oh...on a side note, I appreciate all of the input on this thread, I am certainly learning :)
GG
The idea that newer is better is based on the notion that every technology can be improved upon. Bikes in the last 10 years have nearly hit a ceiling when it comes to gains. The difference between a 10 year old poor mans TT bike and a top of the line 2020 TT bike is likely down to a matter of seconds. Bikes for the large part have hit a ceiling. There are component upgrades that have made bikes faster but the frame is largely as fast as its going to get. Thats the reason why there are so many super bikes out there. There is very little that a large company like Cervelo knows about frames that a smaller niche company doesn't know as well. Going with some of the top bikes is going to be a 1% difference. Your bike choice should be based on YOUR needs and your personal preferences. The P5d is without question faster than the PX series......assuming you have no wind visible nutrition. Thus if you carry a ton of stuff on your frame a PX will be faster than a P5 despite a less aero and heavier frame.
I bought a Cervelo P5d because I liked the color, the look and thats what I'm use to. But my bike splits are not tangibly faster than my 2015 P5 nor would I expect them to be much faster than my 2011 Speed Concept if they were all set up the same.
Bit of a nitpicky point on an old thread, but there is a big difference between your 2015 P5 and a “10 year old poor man’s TT bike”
Personally, going from a pretty budget optimized old aluminum Felt S22 (GP5ks, latex tubes, wheel cover, Flo front) to a 2019 P5d last year was a revelation. Much more than a matter of seconds!
That being said, were the gains between the P5d and something used for half the price that significant? Probably not.
First, although technically true. When one refers to a “poor mans item”, it’s usually a lower end cheaper model, not a basement model. An aluminum $1500 bike, is hardly what I was referring to...more along the lines of a $2500-3000 Carbon TT bike which is still budget.
That said, to even address your point as is. Do you have any data? Because there are tests showing that an optimized road bike with clip on aero bars is only 26 seconds slower than an TT bike over 40km (117s over an IM distance). Since it’s less than 2 minutes, I feel though many would refer to that as seconds rather than minutes.
https://www.cyclingweekly.com/...l-bike-really-434360
Next, what is likely causing the significant improved for it is:
1. Lighter weight bike=quicker acceleration.
2. Electronic shifting can make a big improvements
3. Stiffness of Carbon Fibre
4. Probably jumped from a 9/10 speed to an 11speed? Maybe even 12?
5. Disc brakes can make you a lot more confident and allows one to go into the corners faster.
6. Newer bikes can allow you to optimize your fit much better.
7. Placebo effect. You went from one of the worst bikes in transition, to one of the best. You feel great, love cycling and that alone with make a difference.
Now compare a 2020 P5d to a 2011 Speed concept and as far as the frame goes, you’re talking a whole lot less than 26s over 40km.
Re: What Manufacuters are the Tri Super Bikes ?? [T2LV]
[ In reply to ]
All valid points! Even watts to mph would need to account for road surface, climate, etc. And the “don’t be slower on your needlessly fancy bike” pressure can’t be overstated!
Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
Re: What Manufacuters are the Tri Super Bikes ?? [MI_Mumps]
[ In reply to ]
Speed is always going to be super hard to gauge. 3rd party testing is best, but each persons fit, speed, color of their jersey, etc... is going to skew the results. Then you add marketing teams that want to skew the results on purpose and the data becomes meaningless. AKA weighting of yaw angles can have a huge effect on performance, and there are a ton of different ways to weight it. Not to mention wheels, TIRES, etc... It's generally thought that the Cervelo P5 has the lowest 0 yaw drag "I think", but not as yaw goes up. So who is fastest - and does 20sec over a half ironman matter for most of us?
For Superbikes I think we're past the age of aero as most bikes are getting very close. Some are faster and some are slower depending on all of the above. I think what we will see in the future is integration, ease of building / traveling and weight. Bento boxes are going to be integrated into the top tube and get bigger. Disc brakes are going to get integrated along with electronic shifting buttons to be as clean as possible. Flat storage is mandatory today. Follow that with easy to live with - No proprietary bottom brackets, or headsets that are so small they need to be replaced each year, easy to maintain, wire, travel with etc...
Right now there is still room at the top. The new Argon 18 shows where we're going, but they missed the fit for a lot of people. Cervelo missed the boat on the P5 as there is a market for aftermarket 3D printed storage, and the electronic wiring is a nightmare (but the adjustability is great). A lot of us are not fans of integrated water due to cleaning while others are. Weight although is not super important, to a lot of buyers it is, like it or not.
Canyon, Scott, QR, Trek, etc.. all have missing pieces as well.
For Superbikes I think we're past the age of aero as most bikes are getting very close. Some are faster and some are slower depending on all of the above. I think what we will see in the future is integration, ease of building / traveling and weight. Bento boxes are going to be integrated into the top tube and get bigger. Disc brakes are going to get integrated along with electronic shifting buttons to be as clean as possible. Flat storage is mandatory today. Follow that with easy to live with - No proprietary bottom brackets, or headsets that are so small they need to be replaced each year, easy to maintain, wire, travel with etc...
Right now there is still room at the top. The new Argon 18 shows where we're going, but they missed the fit for a lot of people. Cervelo missed the boat on the P5 as there is a market for aftermarket 3D printed storage, and the electronic wiring is a nightmare (but the adjustability is great). A lot of us are not fans of integrated water due to cleaning while others are. Weight although is not super important, to a lot of buyers it is, like it or not.
Canyon, Scott, QR, Trek, etc.. all have missing pieces as well.
Re: What Manufacuters are the Tri Super Bikes ?? [blackey]
[ In reply to ]
blackey wrote:
Cervelo missed the boat on the P5 as there is a market for aftermarket 3D printed storage, and the electronic wiring is a nightmare (but the adjustability is great). A lot of us are not fans of integrated water due to cleaning while others are. Weight although is not super important, to a lot of buyers it is, like it or not.I notice the Cervelo Tri-bikes do not offer a crankset for power meters like the Rotor or FSB. Do I have this wrong?
Thanks
GG
Re: What Manufacuters are the Tri Super Bikes ?? [Gatineau Gator]
[ In reply to ]
Anything designed/built by Graham Obree
Re: What Manufacuters are the Tri Super Bikes ?? [stevej]
[ In reply to ]
stevej wrote:
During my time on this forum, the origination of the term "super bike" came about in the 2011/2012 timeframe with the original release of the SC and P5 which at that time were the first bikes to showcase integrated front ends (SC/P5) and integrated storage (SC draft box). But doing a search result shows discussions back to 2002. Define it however you like.... there's no wrong answer here
Wasn't Giant the first one to design an integrated cockpit in 2009 (Trinity Advanced)?
Engner66 wrote:
stevej wrote:
During my time on this forum, the origination of the term "super bike" came about in the 2011/2012 timeframe with the original release of the SC and P5 which at that time were the first bikes to showcase integrated front ends (SC/P5) and integrated storage (SC draft box). But doing a search result shows discussions back to 2002. Define it however you like.... there's no wrong answer here
Wasn't Giant the first one to design an integrated cockpit in 2009 (Trinity Advanced)?
I believe your correct. I've seen that mentioned on another thread when this subject comes out.
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