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Running Progression at MLSS / Threshold - Posting results
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Update, see later post.
Redid this progression.
Starting 5k: 17:37
8 weeks later
Finishing 5k: 16:59

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I came across this paper via the Empirical Cycling podcast that studied runners training at MLSS with an interval time progression
link to paper on scihub
The study had runners train for 6 weeks. with 2 workouts a week running at MLSS pace. For my own testing I will be using the Jack Daniels T pace.
This has me running around 6:10/mile. with 5min rest between intervals
Week 1 3x10 2x15

Week 2 3x12 2x18

Week 3 3x14 2x21

Week 4 3x16 2x24

Week 5 3x18 2x27

Week 6 3x20 2x30


I've used a similar method in my bike training for 2 separate blocks and saw really good results.

So now with IM MD officailly cancelled I figured why not have something else to train for.

Completed the first workout today and here are the results. I'll be posting workouts as I complete them.



Went out a little fast, still trying to find the pace. Feels very doable and looking forward to the next workout on Sunday
I plan to be running between 38 - 50 mpw depending on how I feel
Last edited by: Ryanppax: Nov 6, 20 10:09
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Re: Running Progression at MLSS / Threshold - Posting results [Ryanppax] [ In reply to ]
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Hot one today. 90F and 52% humidity.
Workout #2 2x15min
Second interval was really tough, had to take a couple seconds here and there. May still need to tune the speed some


Last edited by: Ryanppax: Aug 2, 20 13:25
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Re: Running Progression at MLSS / Threshold - Posting results [Ryanppax] [ In reply to ]
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You should adjust the speed for conditions. I just use HR.

Dimond Bikes
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Re: Running Progression at MLSS / Threshold - Posting results [Ryanppax] [ In reply to ]
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What are you using to measure progress? Did you do a race/tt recently and do you plan to do one at the end?
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Re: Running Progression at MLSS / Threshold - Posting results [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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ericlambi wrote:
You should adjust the speed for conditions. I just use HR.

I actually tend to turn that on its head, and adjust the conditions to the speed. In other words, I do these types of workouts in an environment where I can get the cooling required to do them "at the target pace". Thus, its the TM with a fan at this time of year.

I'm not sure how much value there is in doing "slow" threshold work. Plus, the downstream risk/cost of pace+heat seems very high for them in the heat---i'm much more likely to overdo it, unwittingly...until its too late and the damage is done.
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Re: Running Progression at MLSS / Threshold - Posting results [indianacyclist] [ In reply to ]
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indianacyclist wrote:
What are you using to measure progress? Did you do a race/tt recently and do you plan to do one at the end?

I plan on doing a 10k TT after I finish. Previous pr of 37:17 a couple months ago. Not a great control to test solely the affects of these 6 weeks but good enough for me. Running up to this point has mostly been volume with some vo2 work early June.

I'll be really interested to see where RPE goes from here. From personal experience on the bike is I do not see much immediate gain from vo2 work but threshold intervals become much easier after 3-4 workouts and large ftp increases after the block.
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Re: Running Progression at MLSS / Threshold - Posting results [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Tom_hampton wrote:
ericlambi wrote:
You should adjust the speed for conditions. I just use HR.

I actually tend to turn that on its head, and adjust the conditions to the speed. In other words, I do these types of workouts in an environment where I can get the cooling required to do them "at the target pace". Thus, its the TM with a fan at this time of year.

I'm not sure how much value there is in doing "slow" threshold work. Plus, the downstream risk/cost of pace+heat seems very high for them in the heat---i'm much more likely to overdo it, unwittingly...until its too late and the damage is done.

Wasn't sure how to articulate that, but you said it pretty well. It's easy to track watts on the bike but running hasn't gotten so technical
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Re: Running Progression at MLSS / Threshold - Posting results [Ryanppax] [ In reply to ]
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Ryanppax wrote:
Wasn't sure how to articulate that, but you said it pretty well. It's easy to track watts on the bike but running hasn't gotten so technical

Yet....

you still seem to be doing 0.9-1.0IF workouts in the broiling heat+humidity. That carries a significant downstream risk for recovery cost (at best), and heat-injury (at worse). The heat stress + the "training stress" can blow the roof off...so to speak. I wouldn't (and DO NOT) do that. If you want to do "threshold work" in the heat...you have to back down the pace...or you WILL blow-up, eventually....big-time. Lots of ways things can go to hell, badly...and screw up days or weeks of training. Its just not worth it.

I live in Texas. I run in the lunch-time heat (95-100F, dew point 75-85) every day (for years), outside for an hour-ish at 0.8IF or so (easy Z1/2). Mostly this is just heat-acclimation focussed, and some extra volume. Then, I'll do some type of "pace-work" on my TM inside in the evening with a nice big fan, a couple nights a week.

If you have no choice, then I agree with the poster above; HR is the best way to assess "total body stress", and you just have to give up the pace to compensate.
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Re: Running Progression at MLSS / Threshold - Posting results [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the insight. I'll keep an eye on it. Those micro rests were for sure a sign of blowing up. FWIW the place I do these workouts is very well shaded.
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Re: Running Progression at MLSS / Threshold - Posting results [Ryanppax] [ In reply to ]
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Alrighty, I'm half a week behind due to work travel but carrying on.
Today was 3x12. Weather was 90 and sunny. Started at 6:30PM so I was very well shaded on the trail.

Not a whole lot going on this week due to work. I really find it difficult to train while away from home.

I attempted this workout Wednesday on the hotel treadmill. It was stuffy with no fan. Lack of motivation combined with insane amounts of sweat, I called it half way into interval #2.
Today doing the intervals I felt really good. Sweating like a pig as usual but RPE was manageable. Didn't get hard until final 6min.




For the next workout of 2x18 I will heed Tom_hampton's advice. 18min will be a much different animal than 12min.
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Re: Running Progression at MLSS / Threshold - Posting results [Ryanppax] [ In reply to ]
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***UPDATE***
So after taking a crash on the bike, and taking the whole next week off I decided to redo this plan again.
This was right around the time Lionel was posting his 5k training so I figured I would do one too. I have no desire to solo TT anything longer than a 5k, its just too hard mentally to push when not racing someone.
September 5: 5k of 17:37, this was after bailing on one a few days before because I did not pace properly. 2 days before this I did a 4x400 at goal pace, and that really helped my pacing for the TT.


Week 1: All E running. I can't quite remember why that was but that weekend I was also doing recon for Granfondo Maryland.
Week 2 - 8 The Progression workouts. Yes this has an extra week in there. I moved the workouts up due to a back to back fast century one weekend and a Duathlon another weekend.
Week 9: Tuesday: 8x400 .12r @5k pace Thursday: 4x800 .25r @5k pace and Friday was the 5k @ 16:59. At mile 2.75 I had moment of weakness and walked a little bit but I HTFU and finished.


All my intervals were around 6-6:03/mile average. The final weeks, I was hitting 5:53 on the first interval, The final 2x30min workout I did 5:54 and 5:57/mile.
The cooler weather definitely helped me get this done. All in all, I am very happy with these results and I may be racing a HM in a month. I really think I can realistically do sub 1:20 HM


Last edited by: Ryanppax: Nov 6, 20 10:24
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