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Re: Chinese concentration camps [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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You didn't QUITE get me, but... I've read enough of your posts to know that I should never engage with you and have the expectation that you'd have a discussion in good faith, so no problem for me to let this one drop too!
Last edited by: trois_pample: Jul 3, 20 13:36
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Re: Chinese concentration camps [trois_pample] [ In reply to ]
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trois_pample wrote:
You didn't QUITE get me, but... I've read enough of your posts to know that I should never engage with you and have the expectation that you'd have a discussion in good faith.

Or you don't like your specious bullshit called out
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Re: Chinese concentration camps [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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Aww... You don't even get to wash Trump's balls on this one! How about we go find another post where you can lick some boots to avoid acknowledging a problematic part of America's ongoing history.

-> I think that one about Washington's football team has all the makings of an opportunity to exercise your "patriotic" hallucinations :) Looks pretty promising to me!
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Re: Chinese concentration camps [trois_pample] [ In reply to ]
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trois_pample wrote:
Aww... You don't even get to wash Trump's balls on this one! How about we go find another post where you can lick some boots to avoid acknowledging a problematic part of America's ongoing history.

-> I think that one about Washington's football team has all the makings of an opportunity to exercise your "patriotic" hallucinations :) Looks pretty promising to me!

And the ad hominem attack begins when you don't like your BS called out. Have a good rest of the thread here.
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Re: Chinese concentration camps [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:

Or you don't like your specious bullshit called out


Who started what now?

Look... you can't expect anyone to take you seriously when you've posted such virulent nonsense on here for so long... Getting grumpy when someone laughs at you after you spent 6 months (doing the posting equivalent of) smearing on clown makeup is a 180 that I'm not sure anyone can make without wiping out... And the great news is: there's always a bunch of people who are happy to indulge you! Evidence suggests you can keep having fun with that for a long time.
Last edited by: trois_pample: Jul 3, 20 14:22
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Re: Chinese concentration camps [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
What China is doing with Uighurs right now is basically genocide but in a less-visible fashion. It churns my stomach that nobody is standing up to China. We should cut off trade with them full stop and even go so far as to impose a Naval blockade... maybe even given Taiwan a few nukes though it occurred to me the other night that it would be fitting for India to give Taiwan a few nukes.

Reading about the hair extensions really turns my stomach, too. I shopped at Costco today, and I looked around wondering how many items were from China. Our country consumes such vast quantities of stuff. It’s really gross.

In another thread, someone asked at what age did you know the difference between rich and poor.

For me, when a person has the ability to buy made-in-America, high-quality stuff, they are rich. I was about 30 when I decided that. I’m a late bloomer.

When a person learns how to enjoy life without needing products from China (cheap or name brand purses or clothes; televisions; devices; squirt guns or whatever), they are rich.
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Re: Chinese concentration camps [H-] [ In reply to ]
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H- wrote:
How about a consumer movement to boycott Chinese-made goods? Exemplar is the Anti-Apartheid Movement that encouraged boycotting South African goods.

Would enough people in the US care to make a difference?

When I was in high school in Montana in 1989 or so, we heard on NPR about the anti-apartheid movement. Nelson Mandela was in prison in South Africa. The news story talked about the world condemning apartheid and his imprisonment. So, I wrote a letter to president of South Africa. I think it must have been F. W. de Klerk. I told him I was a 15 year old kid in Montana, USA, and I knew that apartheid was wrong. I told him that the eyes of the world were on his country.

Sometime not long after that, before 1991, we heard on NPR that Mandela was released from prison. My mom made a cake and my friends came over to celebrate. I said to myself, “yes. My letter made a difference.” Lol! Who can say it didn’t?

These days, I’m following fun people on Twitter, including middle-aged people like me, some k-pop stans, some Thai teenagers, and other random, interesting people. It is so encouraging. There are a lot of really funny, civic-minded people in the world. This is a great time.
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Re: Chinese concentration camps [trois_pample] [ In reply to ]
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trois_pample wrote:

Hmm... so... these: https://en.wikipedia.org/...f_Japanese_Americans (The first sentence: The internment of Japanese Americans in the United States during World War II was the forced relocation and incarceration in concentration camps in the western interior of the country of about 120,000[5] people of Japanese ancestry, most of whom lived on the Pacific Coast.) are getting reused for migrants from south America (https://time.com/...-children-fort-sill/)... I'm not saying we shouldn't be calling for boycotts or demanding basic human rights for everyone, but... it's going to come off as a little hypocritical if you're doing it in China and not in the US. One of the best places you could start is by phoning the politicians who are supposed to be representing you, since you might have more sway with them than with an unrelated government on the other side of the world. Or maybe you could boycott the products that come out of the states were American concentration camps are getting reused right now?


I guess I think it’s good to work near and far for justice.

The stories of our own internment camps are super important. I think I read there were 10 internment camps in our country. Thank you for bringing them up.

I was introduced as a little tiny kid to a man named Alfredo Cipolato in Missoula, Montana.

Mr. Cipolato was born in Italy and worked at the World's Fair in NYC in 1940. His obituary says that when the US entered WWII, Mr. Cipolato unintentionally went to the internment camp in Fort Missoula, Montana. There, he worked on train tracks and picked sugar beets. That’s a nice way to say he was imprisoned and endured forced labor. It can be described so benignly. His obituary does not complain at all. But if we are thinking adults who understand the suspicious mindset that prompted the establishment of the internment camps which stripped all civil rights from the prisoners, we should be able to divine the ugliness that he undoubtedly endured in this camp in our own country.

Mr. Cipolato eventually had an Italian market in Missoula and sang with my grandfather and father in a men’s choir. Later I went to college in Missoula, and I bought pasta and sauce from his market. It was very expensive. I could not afford his pasta and sauce on my student budget. Lol!

In Wyoming there is an internment camp called Heart Mountain. I haven’t been there, although I hear it is very intense.

American history is super important because we’ve done almost all the bad shit we want to condemn in other countries. If we visit our own internment camps and hear the stories about the victims of our oppression, we have more empathy for people struggling on the other side of the world. So, we need to look at injustice here and there. We have enough brilliant and energetic people to care for both.
Last edited by: Calamityjane88: Jul 3, 20 16:03
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Re: Chinese concentration camps [Calamityjane88] [ In reply to ]
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This is a pretty good read: https://www.amazon.com/...aps%2C141&sr=8-1

It helps understand why we are in such a turmoil.
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Re: Chinese concentration camps [Calamityjane88] [ In reply to ]
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China has people in concentration camps, an NBA executive comes out in solidarity with the people of Hong Kong, but then he's told to be silent by the players because it effects their pocketbook. A whole lot of transitive morality going on. The Chinese have been at this for awhile with various minority groups. See the Sino-Tibetan conflicts that eventually subjugated Tibet under PRC control.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Chinese concentration camps [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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Can you explain “transitive morality” to me? I just googled it but didn’t find an answer.
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Re: Chinese concentration camps [dalava] [ In reply to ]
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dalava wrote:
This is a pretty good read: https://www.amazon.com/...aps%2C141&sr=8-1

It helps understand why we are in such a turmoil.

Could this be a candidate for the ST Book Club? I promise to listen more than I talk.
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Re: Chinese concentration camps [Calamityjane88] [ In reply to ]
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When X and Y are true you believe something. When X+Y+Z are true you believe something else. Nike is the classic company of transitive morality.

The NBA as an organization is pretty classic in their belief of transitive morality. Oh can't upset China, we're making hundreds of millions over there!

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Chinese concentration camps [softrun] [ In reply to ]
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softrun wrote:
...corporations are making huge money from made in China so nothing will be done. It is not just Trump who don't want/can't act, nobody could, because, you know, trade...

This is the real reason we have a perpetual huge trade deficit with them. The average person pays dearly in depressed wages in order to get "cheap" stuff.
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Re: Chinese concentration camps [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
softrun wrote:
...corporations are making huge money from made in China so nothing will be done. It is not just Trump who don't want/can't act, nobody could, because, you know, trade...

This is the real reason we have a perpetual huge trade deficit with them. The average person pays dearly in depressed wages in order to get "cheap" stuff.

Right— this is something I’ve been thinking about for here and abroad. Unfair wages b/c of discrimination create unfair competition. Discrimination is anti-capitalism! It’s true for companies that underpay women & minorities here and true for companies that use forced labor in China. (I took only 1 economics class in college so my thinking on this stuff is at Econ 101.)
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Re: Chinese concentration camps [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
When X and Y are true you believe something. When X+Y+Z are true you believe something else. Nike is the classic company of transitive morality.

The NBA as an organization is pretty classic in their belief of transitive morality. Oh can't upset China, we're making hundreds of millions over there!

I’m still thinking about this, and I don’t really get it. No rush, but I want to hear more.
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Re: Chinese concentration camps [CallMeMaybe] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe we could just call them hypocrites? Here's an article that specifically talks about Daryl Morey and the Hong Kong issue.

https://www.sportingnews.com/...zxh37fi1mpw177p9bqwi

We talk about Police Brutality, which lives matter, but human rights in another country? Don't talk about it because it effects our bank accounts.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Chinese concentration camps [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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TheStroBro wrote:
Maybe we could just call them hypocrites? Here's an article that specifically talks about Daryl Morey and the Hong Kong issue.

https://www.sportingnews.com/...zxh37fi1mpw177p9bqwi

We talk about Police Brutality, which lives matter, but human rights in another country? Don't talk about it because it effects our bank accounts.

The NBA is the creative content of basketball that Chinese businesses want to use in return for money. It’s all licensing, right? Although there would be financial pain in the short run, the NBA owns the past and future of basketball. Why doesn’t the NBA see that China wouldn’t hold out for more than 1 year if the NBA ceased all business with China over this issue?

The NBA looks like China’s lapdog. How embarrassing for the NBA & it’s players and fans.
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Re: Chinese concentration camps [CallMeMaybe] [ In reply to ]
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Well we do celebrate the 4th of July with mostly Chinese fireworks....
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