This may be a bit of a hijack of the current thread, but when the OP posted his question I started wondering if one of the real advantages for a disc setup will be an improvement in both aerodynamics and Crr from using a hookless rim like the new 303s. I don’t think you can make a similar rim with a bead hook that will survive the heat issues from braking and compression of the rim wall. In theory, the hookless rim could allow for a net reduction in the watts/mph with the comfort of a wider tire. This sort of fits with either Vroomen or White’s point that removing the brake from the fork crown allows for a more aerodynamic head-tube/down-tube design that offsets the losses from the rotor and caliper.

Personally it hate disc brakes more than just about anyone, but I can see the writing on the wall for rim brakes. We might be at a point where the advantages of disc brakes really do outweigh the PITA factor.

What rims and pads on the Ultegra? Those choices make a HUGE difference.

What is the "nightmare" of latex tubes and clinchers on a TLR wheelset? I do it all the time...and actually think it's better than the same on a non-TLR rim.

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You seem to be operating under the assumption that the braking surface area is and/or should be carbon ;-)



Explain to me how a head-tube/down-tube design can get more aerodynamic than the one on a Speed Concept...by eliminating the frontal area of the pads in the gap? That's going to offset a brake disc/caliper/extra spokes/bulkier hub (not to mention additional weight)?

That's some marketing spin and/or wishful thinking...

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Various SwissStops on a mix of aluminum and carbon tracked wheels.

Do I think the problems of rim brakes and the “advantage” of disc overstated? Yes. It’s enough of a margin (and a preference to have a single system in the house) that I’ve made my bed and am prepared to lie in it.

As for TLR wheels: Reynolds and literally any tire. 20 mins, swearing, and a bead jack required each time. If I flat I’m fucked. So to full tubeless I go...

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Have you tried the SwissStop BXPs on alu?

Or, the KoolStop Salmon or Dual Compound? On my old Bianchi, I had to "detune" from the Salmons to the Dual compound...the Salmon actually "grabbed" too well when used in conjunction with a Dura Ace dual pivot "1st gen" (i.e. "beefy") brakeset. I just did a ~3600ft descent yesterday on that bike. Single-finger braking on the front :-)

I've heard/read those Reynolds can be a bear with tire mounting...

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Yes on all of the above. It was good. Disc just slightly better.

Honestly, this is driven out of the fact that my gravel rig is also my road and cyclocross ride, and no matter what I did cantilevers were never good enough. And I just want to have a single standard (12 mm thru axle, same spacing, center lock) for everything I have to wrench on.

I literally frisbee’d those Reynolds across my lawn. My annoyance level with any product has never been higher, and I’ve liked their products (they used to sponsor Rev3, and I greatly enjoyed their partnership with our retail store).

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Yeah, right now I'm using salmons on my gravel bike on BR-T610 v-brakes.



I also spent some time on the stock S70C pads. They felt fantastic, and I think might have actually behaved a hair more predictably than the salmons. But they picked up a lot of gunk, and they wore extremely fast on wet gravel descents.

I'm using pretty decent housing and some very stiff brake levers. Overall, in dry weather I think the v-brakes feel pretty comparable to the hydraulic discs on my MTB (right now actually better, since the discs are overdue for a bleed). Very powerful, excellent modulation.
But in hard rain, the rim brakes are definitely affected more than the hydros. Both brakes see reduced performance while the braking surface is being swept, but it's more dramatic with the rim brakes, which makes for a more abrupt brake power ramp as the rim clears. And it seems to me that this should be expected: in addition to the different pad materials that are practical to use with an easily-replaced cheap steel wear item, disc brakes are naturally set up for much higher pad pressure to achieve the same braking power since the brake track diameter is so much lower.

Here's my solution for a gravel bike with cantilever posts :-)

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That's intersting- never happened to me in the 15+ years of using discs on mtbs. Whilst the pads dont contact, the tracks have lots of holes and the pad pressure is what 10x or 20x that on rims at an educated guess. So the water is shifted very quickly (on a rim brake the pads are intentionally angled - to stop squealing / juddering - but that wonderfully encourages the pad to hydroplane - as a wedge shape gap for the water to go into - just like a hydrodynamic bearing is designed !

Yeah there's no way two exposed rim brake pads (maybe 5mm by 5mm area?) are equivalent to a rotor, a big brick-shaped caliper, and the additional spokes. Cant get around additional frontal area.

How often did you ride on a road in the rain on that MTB? ;-)

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