So it wasn't bang on the money at all for you then?

You under performed in the marathon and nailed your IM run. It's easier to run close to your marathon PR in IM, if your PR is represented by one crap race.

You just restated the exact reason he claimed it to be accurate in his experience

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OH I had to read this several times to figure out what you were talking about. I was like ''
You literally just quoted the times'
2019 Eagleman bike 2:13 242np
run: 1:33 with a shit stop

2019 watermans bike 2:16 bike 229w np
1:33 run Steady pace

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It's hardly an accurate or relevant predictor of capability to run within 15 minutes of an open marathon time which is the point of discussion, which is in part what was implied.

Thanks.

1:33 is an immediately relatable stat when we read it.

It can just get tiresome converting a wide range of minute/mile paces to finish times, to be able to reply to queries about performances from 10km to 100 miles.

How is a 1:32 run a 6:31 split?

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First 7 miles were, then I had gi issues and had to stop. Continued the race a bit slower

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Ditto to what Steve said. Don’t underestimate how much the swim can take out of you and spend The time to get your nutrition right. Based on my own experience, I’d worry less about the technical details of your training and focus more on how to prevent your day from going off the rails. You won’t believe how uncomfortable you will get at the end of an IM bike leg - I promise it is far worse than any other 5 hour ride you’ve done. If you’re already gassed from the swim, it would suck.

It sounds like you’re entering your first IM season about where I was for my first in terms of run speed (38:xx 10k PR, 1:27 was my best 70.3 split going into the season and split a 1:24 about 12 weeks out, but usually ran 1:30-1:33 in a half IM). I ended up having a pretty solid day and ran 3:25 on a flat course with pretty good conditions. According to Strava, it looks like I maxed out about 25-30 mpw. 15 months later with my mileage up to 35-40 mpw at peak training I got down to 3:12ish at IMLOU with perfect run conditions - again running a 1:25 in a half IM in my lead up race. So if you’re consistent with more mileage And you’re already seeing improvements this year, I don’t think 3:15 is crazy.

That being said, I would focus more on how you can simulate race conditions than what you are specifically doing in terms of mileage and efforts - especially since you won’t have raced as much as Normal this year. I did a bigger Saturday training day ~every other week for 3-4 months with a long-ish run off the bike (4-5ish hrs bike + 75-90 min run). Then I’d follow that up with another 3ish hr ride on Sunday While glycogen stores were depleted so I had to practice fueling again. This forced me to practice my nutrition, running in the heat of the day, and getting uncomfortable on the bike. Probably have a lot of coaches on here cringing, but it worked fairly well for me. I’d rather be in 3:20 shape and give myself an 80% chance of being able to run to the best of my ability than be in 3:10 shape and having a 20% chance of being able to Run to my ability.

Yes, but maybe I could have expressed myself clearly

I would expect to run a well executed Marathon in 3hr
I would expect tor run a well executed IM run in 3h 20m

My Marathon PR is a bit off due to poor execution

Lots of variables, but if we're going off your 70.3 pb(?) 4.21, I would have thought mid - high 9 hours would be more realistic depending on the course. Most guys I know going under 9 hours are around 4 hours for a 70.3. Also going in to a race "expecting" a certain could be a recipe for disaster?

The risk of increasing your mileage now is the increase risk of injury. I ramped my mileage from 30-40pw to 50-60pw, unfortunately I ended up with Quadrilateral Tendonitis.... I was lucky I recognised it early and dropped pace right down and mileage in April to 20pw, I gradually ramped mileage in May, but keeping pace low. I am now ramping pace back up and my weekly mileage is around 40pw, where I intend to keep it.

Interestingly I have lost some of my top end pace which has gone from 6:00/mi to 6:20/mi, however, my easy (low Z2 pace) has gone from 8:20/mi to 7:20/mi. I attribute that this to much more cycling at high intensity giving me a much bigger engine

For my run training going forward, most of my mileage will be at 7:20 - 7:45, with at least one interval session per week with some VO2 max intervals. As I get nearer to race day, I will inlcude some longer runs below 7:15 pace

Just a word of warning on the bike leg. I have always raced IM at 75% of FTP, now my FTP is 350, 75% is 260w.... my coach has advised me to reduce the IF from 75% to 70%, around 245w. The reason being that working at 260w I will be burining through too many calories which may result in being under fuelled on the run. Better reduce power a little, be better fuelled on the run and have a much stronger run time

Do you know what caused the GI issues at eagleman? Any nutrition issues in a 70.3 will be amplified 100x more in an Ironman. What happened at 70.3 worlds in Nice?

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Delayed race start, not drinking enough on the bike. Literally 1 bottle. It was pouring down rain so thirst wasn't an issue, so I missed out on calories and hydration. On the run, once I took in a gel and a gatorade from aid set me over the edge.

At Nice, I was actually sick. First morning in Nice I had a sore throat, raced 2 days later and crossed the line with a fever. I don't even think about that day. UGH


Come Waterman's I took an immodium, hydrated properly on the bike, ate a banana early in the run and had a solid stomach.

I've been making my own rice cakes lately and they are really awesome. Super easy eat, and as someone who eats rice 2x a day for lunch and dinner most days its easy on my stomach. I'll definitely be packing a few for the bike.

For the run I need to go out and test some different gels. Thinking maurten, as I've only used gu in the past.

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Slightly off topic, however, I have read reports of negative effects of immodium, and that it could reduce absorbtion of fluid and carbs. I was looking for peer reviewed research to back this up, and can't find anything. However, interested what others think

I think a sub 9 is possible if you get it all right.

I also think you're being optimistic on run splits for a full IM. If you can run a marathon at a 6:40 pace, you're not running a marathon after swimming an hour and biking 112 miles at a 7-7:10 pace, imho.

I was in a similar position to you. Running was my weakness (due mostly to injury). Could run a half during training at 6:20ish...which is around 1:24, iirc. 6:35-6:40 (2:53) was probably do-able for a full marathon.

I swam in an hour, biked a 4:25 and started running at just over 7's. 7s turned to 7:30's about 10 miles in. Then 7:45s, then 8s. That second 13 miles is no joke.
Total survival mode. Ended up with a 7:33 split and 8:55 overall time.

Training wise, I'm no expert.....but if I were in your position I'd try to maintain your bike FTP/fitness and increase the volume so riding for 4-5hrs isn't as rare. Then spend the rest of the focus on running off the bike and increasing running volume.....while avoiding injury.

Sounds like you're on the right track, may simply take some time.

1st if you're already fit you need 6-12 weeks specific prep for an IM...max.

2nd Look vo2 isn't going to matter much. If you jack up your power by 10-15w over 10 -15min yet you lose 5w over 4h is that a good trade off? It's not one I'd make, ymmv.

You can work vo2 into your normal training. Got a hill that's a 4-8 min climb? Go crush it once or twice a week. In the meantime focus on riding long intervals & interval sets. Doing a focused workout on vo2 is missing the boat. Two things I would think about are increasing the bike miles a bit on some of those 2.5-3h rides making then 3-3.5 and doing some longer intervals in my long rides. There are some other things I'd have my athletes do, not necessarily intervals when riding.

What is going to matter is how many watts you can hold for 4:xx AND still get off and run.
Ponder the demands then figure out the plan.





You know how many people's IM pace is slower than their E pace? >75% of the field even at the pointy end.
I'd just run 45-50 miles week in week out with some fast stuff in the 1-4 min range, some tempo type intervals and hilly routes if you have them. When it comes to running just running is more important than being fancy with your run planning.

If you do stick to the above 4/4/4 week block I'd rearrange it. Ymmv

Hope that helps

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That makes a lot of sense now that you'vs pointed it out. So basically my run fitness is what it is currently, and my goal for these 12 weeks is to build durability to ease degradation come race day?

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You want to add to your run fitness certainly. That will help you not slow down as much over the back half. <- that sentence is a HUGE hint on how to do your run training. Ponder it!

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