IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River

May 31, 20 10:56

Post #1 of 23 (5237 views)

"American River in Sacramento still tainted with feces, despite new parkway bathrooms"

https://www.sacbee.com/...rticle243034736.html

Assuming that race directors and IM officials monitor this forum it's imperative that we Sacramento area natives call out issues that may prevent athletes from wanting to register for IM California, Sacramento.

While the website cites that the course is still being finalized, my concern is that the American River at Discovery Park will be used for the swim venue. This is a mistake given the level of E. Coli in the water which seems to be a recurring issue. I realize this was called out in another post but I feel this needs to continue to be highlighted as a concern for the safety of the athletes.

There are so many better swim options available upstream at either Lake Natoma or Folsom Lake (Nimbus Dam, Negro Bar, Folsom Point, Brown's Ravine, Granite Bay, Rattlesnake Bar to name a few).

I can certainly appreciate the effort, time, coordination and money required to produce a large race and also understand there are so many moving parts. If my comment is brushed off as a salty old MOP age grouper then I'm fine with that too ;-).

Last edited by: bmpskier: May 31, 20 11:53

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [bmpskier] [ In reply to ]

May 31, 20 13:12

Post #2 of 23 (5133 views)

Thank you for calling it out.

While this race is quite far away and lots of inevitably tough decisions will be made by IM before then, it’s a good point, and will be quite relevant should the registrations from 2020 races-to-be-cancelled start being transferred to 2021 events.

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [bmpskier] [ In reply to ]

May 31, 20 20:27

Post #3 of 23 (4940 views)

Water quality is a significant issue. But moving the swim from downtown Sacramento out to Folsom or Granite Bay completely changes the bike course, whatever that course currently looks like. That could result in having to get many more event permits, much more complicated traffic control, etc. And I think that they are trying to showcase this as mainly a Sacramento event. My guess is that if water quality in the American is an issue, they will switch the swim to the Sacramento River. They could do that without changing anything else about the course (assuming that T1 is in Discovery Park).

Mike Sparks

I have competed well, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [bmpskier] [ In reply to ]

May 31, 20 20:35

Post #4 of 23 (4928 views)

It sounds like shit just got real.

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [bmpskier] [ In reply to ]

Jun 1, 20 14:07

Post #5 of 23 (4746 views)

Like you, I'm a local, and the only topic on which I am disagreeing with you is the viability of using Lake Natoma or Folsom Lake as an alternate swim venue in late October. Natoma is WAY too cold in October in early morning (I say this speaking from multiple years of experience), and Folsom Lake is unlikely to have enough water in it. I reached out to Darrell Steinberg on the Monday following the Friday downtown announcement to tell him he had a huge challenge on his hands because of the combination of the chosen venue, historically high levels of E. Coli in the rivers where the swim was tentatively scheduled to be held, and the unusability of Natoma and Folsom in late October. I also told him that he shouldn't trust the IM people to "figure it all out," because that's not the way it works. I know Darrell well, so this wasn't a random note from a stranger. I had hoped he would read the letter, and call me to say I would be hearing from one of his staffers once they had looked into the matter a little more. Unfortunately and not surprisingly, I never heard back from him. My letter arrived right before Election Day, then the whole virus craziness and lockdown hit, and now we're dealing with riots and looting, so a note from a triathlete explaining the challenges of a race that isn't scheduled to occur until October 2021 is not exactly at the top of his in box.

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [Eileen] [ In reply to ]

Jun 2, 20 11:15

Post #6 of 23 (4571 views)

yup, pretty much this. they have much bigger issues to worry about right now in sacramento than where we are going to swim. but it does seem odd, like you mentioned, natoma and folsom have to be non starters that time of the year right? and all the local officials and IM would have to had known the issues with the rivers IF they are THAT bad right? seems odd to me.
anybody heard any other rumors with the course or event that they feel actually have some merit to them?

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [Eileen] [ In reply to ]

Jun 2, 20 12:16

Post #7 of 23 (4532 views)

It seems to me that they've sort of painted themselves into a corner by setting an event date first, and then trying to figure out a course. The logical thing to do (IMO) would be to design the course and then figure out what times of year they could make that course work. A Lake Natoma or Folsom swim in May or June would be a great venue. No way would I consider this race with a Sacramento River swim. That's just gross.

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [Sparks] [ In reply to ]

Jun 2, 20 15:22

Post #8 of 23 (4466 views)

They want to use Capitol Mall for transition and the Expo. And yes, I believe they were thinking of using the Sacramento rather than the American for the swim so there would be enough water to actually swim. Same problem, though; there are plenty of homeless camps on the banks of the Sacramento.

What cracked me about the articles was the part where they said they weren't sure about the source of the E. Coli, because it could come from dogs or geese. I've got news for them -- there are plenty of dogs and geese at Lake Natoma, and no one talks about unacceptably high levels of E. Coli there.

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [Eileen] [ In reply to ]

Oct 28, 20 14:51

Post #9 of 23 (4013 views)

Bumping an old thread as pre-reg has started... How do you get from the river to Capitol Mall? Seems like quite a ways from swim exit to T1 but just looking at maps as a non local

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]

Oct 28, 20 15:55

Post #10 of 23 (3953 views)

no real info, just guesses here, but i would guess that the finish is at/around the capitol mall, not transitions. i would think transitions would be on the other side of the river by the parking lots/field areas by the bridge. that just seems like too good of a big space not to use for transitions, but maybe i will be wrong. only downside would be a 1/2-1 mile walk back to transitions after you finish. but if they could use that capitol mall grass area for t1/t2 that would be sweet. but i have my doubts.

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [Blainyboy8] [ In reply to ]

Oct 28, 20 16:23

Post #11 of 23 (3930 views)

Where would the put in be for the swim? Looked up stream about 2.4 and didn't see a good entry point.

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [bmpskier] [ In reply to ]

Oct 28, 20 17:33

Post #12 of 23 (3892 views)

Well now there is another reason to swim faster

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]

Oct 28, 20 18:42

Post #13 of 23 (3858 views)

ya good question. i will let the professionals worry about that! but i would think some of those sandy areas in front of Township 9 park would be perfect if they could clear a little path/area. plenty of good drop off areas for shuttles/buses. that would be really close to 2.4 miles. who knows what they will come up with though.

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [Blainyboy8] [ In reply to ]

Oct 29, 20 7:42

Post #14 of 23 (3664 views)

Blainyboy8 wrote:

...... a 1/2-1 mile walk back to transitions after you finish.......

IM Louisville had this & it wasn't much of a problem.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [japarker24] [ In reply to ]

Oct 29, 20 20:37

Post #15 of 23 (3489 views)

japarker24 wrote:

Blainyboy8 wrote:

...... a 1/2-1 mile walk back to transitions after you finish.......

IM Louisville had this & it wasn't much of a problem.

Oceanside too, granted it's a 70.3

-------------------------------------------------------------
Tough Times Don't Last, Tough People Do.

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [bmpskier] [ In reply to ]

Oct 30, 20 9:53

Post #16 of 23 (3350 views)

Perhaps opening up the gates at Natoma before the race to increase the flow and flush the river a bit would help. Considering a swim in Natoma, I wear a full wetsuit in August if I'm doing distance, it's always cold there.

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [slower] [ In reply to ]

Oct 30, 20 22:29

Post #17 of 23 (3245 views)

If it is held in the Sacramento River, as has been mentioned, “flushing” Natoma will not make any difference :-(
FYI- Sand Cove Park on the Sacramento to the Discovery Park boat ramp is almost exactly 2.4 miles :-)

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [IntenseOne] [ In reply to ]

Oct 31, 20 6:46

Post #18 of 23 (3172 views)

Ya that would be perfecdt! only prob is that they already said they want to end the swim at the tower bridge area. hopefully they can find a good area to enter the water 2.4 upstream. one video on FB said they are looking at Township 9 park on the American as the starting point.

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [bmpskier] [ In reply to ]

Jan 14, 21 17:32

Post #19 of 23 (2780 views)

Forget water quality, how about air quality, as in AQI?

I have temporarily relocated to around Mather Field about 2 months ago. During this time there're stretches when AQI > 100 (according to PuprleAir) for weeks on end. It gets worse at night time, but doesn't really get all that much better during the day. From talking to locals, sounds like people are either blissfully unaware, or treat it as some treat COVID, i.e., "it's a hoax." AirNow readings are consistently lower than PurpleAir's, and are mostly between 50-100, but while they claim to be more accurate, I'm not sure I believe that. Smell, coughing, itchy throat and eyes is what I base my final decision on whether to run outside or not, no matter what AirNow says. FWIW, the Temtop monitor I have has readings consistent with the PurpleAir's. I'm reduced to doing everything inside, plugging the holes in garage door and purifying the air there for a while before I start in the morning.

I understand Sac has been steadily climbing on the most polluted U.S. cities list, with being in top 10 recently. LA is also high on that list, but you can still breath fresh air (AQI in Green/Yellow, not Orange+ like it is here) in areas around it. Having lived in CA for 10+ years now, I know chances of bad AQI are significantly higher in Summer/Fall than now, and during the fire season last Fall Sac was pretty much always worse than the Bay (which wasn't great at all either unfortunately).

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is I don't see how one can count on being able to safely exercise outside around here most of the year at all, let alone plan an Ironman during the fire season... We shall see I guess. This is the screenshot from PurpleAir as I type.

Last edited by: friskyDingo: Jan 14, 21 17:39

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [bmpskier] [ In reply to ]

Jan 14, 21 19:47

Post #20 of 23 (2718 views)

Its a fair concern and certainly one we are aware of the perception of the water quality.

We have had independent testing done this year on what would be race week in 6 different locations in both rivers. Water quality came back well within our normal ranges and well within the governing body requirements for swim water quality. This testing was done by a 3rd party water quality testing group and collected in the middle of both rivers, and collected at the surface of the water. 3 locations in the American River, and 3 locations in the Sacramento.

A quick addition to consider. The testing of water done by local authorities is almost always at waters edge and collects water with the test sample extracted while the collector has their feet on the shore. In Sacramento this is the case. Also, the testing locations where they collect are intentionally the areas where water is known to stand the most. This is not a bad testing method, however it almost ensures that the collection sample will be the most absolute worst case scenario for water quality. They do this so they know worst case, it is by design that way. When we test bodies of water for swim courses, we observe those data points and consider them heavily, but we also always collect samples actually out in the body of water where swimming takes place.

In both rivers e.Coli results came back very low in comparison to many places triathlons are currently held. The data collected by the local authorities is not wrong, its just taken in the wrong place. There is a big difference between water that looks dirty, and water that is unhealthy. As it is said in this thread, we will not risk putting athletes in a body of water that is a known issue. We will be testing again next year leading into the event and you can rest assured we rarely do not have back up plans when possible. If you have raced a number of different IRONMAN races in North America you have swam in water that is right around the same quality as these test results showed us.

Again, its a fair concern, I just wanted to add more context that hopefully will clear up some details.

DC - Regional Director - IRONMAN

Last edited by: Bouldertri: Jan 14, 21 19:48

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [friskyDingo] [ In reply to ]

Jan 14, 21 23:27

Post #21 of 23 (2649 views)

friskyDingo wrote:

Forget water quality, how about air quality, as in AQI?

I have temporarily relocated to around Mather Field about 2 months ago. During this time there're stretches when AQI > 100 (according to PuprleAir) for weeks on end. It gets worse at night time, but doesn't really get all that much better during the day. From talking to locals, sounds like people are either blissfully unaware, or treat it as some treat COVID, i.e., "it's a hoax." AirNow readings are consistently lower than PurpleAir's, and are mostly between 50-100, but while they claim to be more accurate, I'm not sure I believe that. Smell, coughing, itchy throat and eyes is what I base my final decision on whether to run outside or not, no matter what AirNow says. FWIW, the Temtop monitor I have has readings consistent with the PurpleAir's. I'm reduced to doing everything inside, plugging the holes in garage door and purifying the air there for a while before I start in the morning.

I understand Sac has been steadily climbing on the most polluted U.S. cities list, with being in top 10 recently. LA is also high on that list, but you can still breath fresh air (AQI in Green/Yellow, not Orange+ like it is here) in areas around it. Having lived in CA for 10+ years now, I know chances of bad AQI are significantly higher in Summer/Fall than now, and during the fire season last Fall Sac was pretty much always worse than the Bay (which wasn't great at all either unfortunately).

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is I don't see how one can count on being able to safely exercise outside around here most of the year at all, let alone plan an Ironman during the fire season... We shall see I guess. This is the screenshot from PurpleAir as I type.

Relax. It isn't Beijing. And you'll have a distinct advantage if you haven't had COVID.

And disagree about seasonal smog. Winter is worse, as chances for inversion layer conditions are higher.

But yeah, it is getting worse.
Climate change, EPA and Farming roll-backs, lack of transportation infrastructure.

Generally the wrong direction.

Relax.
.

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [Bouldertri] [ In reply to ]

Feb 10, 21 13:44

Post #22 of 23 (2308 views)

Bouldertri wrote:

Its a fair concern and certainly one we are aware of the perception of the water quality.

We have had independent testing done this year on what would be race week in 6 different locations in both rivers. Water quality came back well within our normal ranges and well within the governing body requirements for swim water quality. This testing was done by a 3rd party water quality testing group and collected in the middle of both rivers, and collected at the surface of the water. 3 locations in the American River, and 3 locations in the Sacramento.

A quick addition to consider. The testing of water done by local authorities is almost always at waters edge and collects water with the test sample extracted while the collector has their feet on the shore. In Sacramento this is the case. Also, the testing locations where they collect are intentionally the areas where water is known to stand the most. This is not a bad testing method, however it almost ensures that the collection sample will be the most absolute worst case scenario for water quality. They do this so they know worst case, it is by design that way. When we test bodies of water for swim courses, we observe those data points and consider them heavily, but we also always collect samples actually out in the body of water where swimming takes place.

In both rivers e.Coli results came back very low in comparison to many places triathlons are currently held. The data collected by the local authorities is not wrong, its just taken in the wrong place. There is a big difference between water that looks dirty, and water that is unhealthy. As it is said in this thread, we will not risk putting athletes in a body of water that is a known issue. We will be testing again next year leading into the event and you can rest assured we rarely do not have back up plans when possible. If you have raced a number of different IRONMAN races in North America you have swam in water that is right around the same quality as these test results showed us.

Again, its a fair concern, I just wanted to add more context that hopefully will clear up some details.

DC - Regional Director - IRONMAN

Thank you for the thoughtful and informative reply. I'm signed up, and this is reassuring.

Re: IM California, Sacramento/E. coli in American River [windschatten] [ In reply to ]

Feb 10, 21 17:01

Post #23 of 23 (2233 views)

windschatten wrote:

friskyDingo wrote:

Forget water quality, how about air quality, as in AQI?

I have temporarily relocated to around Mather Field about 2 months ago. During this time there're stretches when AQI > 100 (according to PuprleAir) for weeks on end. It gets worse at night time, but doesn't really get all that much better during the day. From talking to locals, sounds like people are either blissfully unaware, or treat it as some treat COVID, i.e., "it's a hoax." AirNow readings are consistently lower than PurpleAir's, and are mostly between 50-100, but while they claim to be more accurate, I'm not sure I believe that. Smell, coughing, itchy throat and eyes is what I base my final decision on whether to run outside or not, no matter what AirNow says. FWIW, the Temtop monitor I have has readings consistent with the PurpleAir's. I'm reduced to doing everything inside, plugging the holes in garage door and purifying the air there for a while before I start in the morning.

I understand Sac has been steadily climbing on the most polluted U.S. cities list, with being in top 10 recently. LA is also high on that list, but you can still breath fresh air (AQI in Green/Yellow, not Orange+ like it is here) in areas around it. Having lived in CA for 10+ years now, I know chances of bad AQI are significantly higher in Summer/Fall than now, and during the fire season last Fall Sac was pretty much always worse than the Bay (which wasn't great at all either unfortunately).

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is I don't see how one can count on being able to safely exercise outside around here most of the year at all, let alone plan an Ironman during the fire season... We shall see I guess. This is the screenshot from PurpleAir as I type.

Relax. It isn't Beijing. And you'll have a distinct advantage if you haven't had COVID.

And disagree about seasonal smog. Winter is worse, as chances for inversion layer conditions are higher.

But yeah, it is getting worse.
Climate change, EPA and Farming roll-backs, lack of transportation infrastructure.

Generally the wrong direction.

Relax.
.

The best we can hope for is a delta breeze the night before to blow anything out but I think you are overblowing how bad the air is here. There are days when the quality is bad but it's not as bad as you are thinking (or I live in a much better pocket, just north of Sac). SpareTheAir.com shows that Sac had over 330 days of good/moderate air and considering the bad fire season we had that's not bad (IMHO).

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