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Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones?
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This post fueled by frustration and gummy bears.

Summer's bike was built up with a barebones di2 kit when we first built up her omni. 1 bar end shifter, a 9070 RD, a 3 port junction, and an external battery. It worked. I found a good deal on a few brake shifters and bar end shifters and figured it was finally time to make the swap to a 1x electronic group on my bike as well. I figured I add a brake lever for her to shift, and then use both left shifters to control the 1x on my bike: a little unconventional but no reason it shouldn't work. LOL.

Brake levers weren't being recognized by her bike, presumably due to firmware issues. Updated the firmware in the recommended ways (only plug in one thing at a time). A few updates later the battery and original bar end shifter are completely bricked. Not picked up via etube at all. Tried them with a non updated junction A from her road bike, still nothing. Took them into a bike shop to plug directly into the computer. Not recognized by their computers either. Just completely useless. Bummer, but I have an extra bar end shifter that is recognized and maybe it's worth updating to an internal battery anyways. Buy a new internal battery and her bike is good to go. End of chapter 1.

Piece together the wires and junctions I need for my bike. Get everything plugged into the computer (thankfully before I mounted to the bike) and everything is recognized (except for the two parts that were dead anyways). Happy so far. Swap the settings on the shifters to shift the rear rather than front, complete setup: still looking good. Unplug from e-tube project to test shifting: nothing. Hold buttons on shifters: nothing. Hold junction box button: nothing. Figure it's maybe not charged. Try to charge it and all I get is the flashing red error light button. Figure I may have underspecced cords or something. Try all combinations I have. Only get the error light. Replug into computer, battery is recognized perfectly. Try another junction box to charge the battery, error button. Test my junction with only known working di2 battery in house, working perfectly. End of chapter 2.

So now I'm left with a 'working' but unrecognizable external battery. A 'working' but unrecognizable sw671 shifter. And a 2 year old battery that is apparently not capable of holding any charge. And of course god forbid shimano has to deal directly with a customer, especially one who likes buying used parts so I haven't found any way to get in contact with them. Do I have any recourse here or am I SOL? I get that Shimano warranties only apply to the original customer so sucks for me that I bought a dead battery I guess, but for the other parts that were working perfectly 5 days ago before Shimano's own software broke them... Ugh.

Should this have gone in the cry like a little biatch thread or am I justified here?

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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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You are probably hosed. But, I am super curious about what happened...

Were there any parts in common between the two bikes at the time you did the updates? Was her original batter connected to yours? Or, had you tossed that already?

Di2 is a simple serial bus to communicate, and if a component is faulty and intermittently either shorts or hits the signal wire with +5 volts, it could scramble a firmware update.
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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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exxxviii wrote:
You are probably hosed. But, I am super curious about what happened...

Were there any parts in common between the two bikes at the time you did the updates? Was her original batter connected to yours? Or, had you tossed that already?

Di2 is a simple serial bus to communicate, and if a component is faulty and intermittently either shorts or hits the signal wire with +5 volts, it could scramble a firmware update.
At the time I did her updates, there was only one bike with di2 and a bunch of parts lying around. I tried to add a single DA brake lever, it wasn't being recognized but I had verified it was working. Starting updating and it did end up working with that bike (same A+B junction & RD) but bricked the battery and shifter in the process. Somehow.

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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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Then the only other common denominator is your computer and the connection to the bike. Given that 2 setups got major parts pricked in two independent sessions, I would put those common parts on the list of potentially infected with Di2 Bricking Virus.
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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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Well the "new to me" battery isn't bricked. It is recognized perfectly when I'm doing connection checks and editing settings. It's acting like a laptop that only works plugged in, you know the type. Battery works but can't hold any charge, so it doesn't actually work.

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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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As far as I know any bike shop should be able to warranty components with Shimano, provided the components are <= two years old.
(and yeah, Shimano will say "original owner", but the shop may be able to help you anyway. In Europe Shimano are generally eager to help, but your mileage may vary)

They should also be able to recover the firmware on those units - according to Shimano the information that "tells the computer what component it is" is built into the component and is not part of the firmware.
Part of the restore process is the unit not being recognized twice though (component recovery starting at ~5:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwVdVkQanBs).

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Last edited by: TerryDi2C: May 21, 20 13:29
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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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I just find it funny that you seem to not believe that Shimano isnā€™t doing intentional obsolescence.
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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [TerryDi2C] [ In reply to ]
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So the bike shop tried to restore it with their pce1 (they wouldn't loan it to me) and couldn't get anywhere with it.

And then the manufacture date of the depleted internal battery is 09/17 (better luck next time!) And not sure on the other stuff but likely older since it's the earlier iterations of stuff.

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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like a case of bad luck - I do understand your frustration though, it sucks :(

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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [TooSlow] [ In reply to ]
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TooSlow wrote:
I just find it funny that you seem to not believe that Shimano isnā€™t doing intentional obsolescence.
Yeah I mean to be clear I never doubted it, but figured it was more for the "oh sorry we can't make you 10sp front derailleur work with your 11sp group", not the "by all our guides and intentions this should work but nope".

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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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I'm pretty sure your external battery itself is fine. The actual piece that host the firmware and the circuitry is the external battery holder. Try another external battery holder if you can borrow one to see if that will work with the other functional junction A.

If you need it I've got 2 spare external short cage Di2 external battery holders. One I know works and the other I don't and might just need an firmware update...or it's dead....I don't know either way as I never tried to check it with a PCE1 since I don't have that or tried with a BCR2 charger cable. I use the long cage latest external battery holder (DN-100) because I thought I'd use Bluetooth but don't actually bother honestly since it's on my road bike and like manual shifting control.
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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [TerryDi2C] [ In reply to ]
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TerryDi2C wrote:
Sounds like a case of bad luck - I do understand your frustration though, it sucks :(
Appreciate the help! And thanks for the site!

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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [loxx0050] [ In reply to ]
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Short cage one works great on the bike and it's definitely worth a try. Looks like they sell fairly cheap, can I pay you for shipping and a few $?

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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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Not overly helpful here, but on every ā€œshould I get di2ā€ thread no one has anything bad to say about di2, itā€™s perfectly reliable, etc etc.

Meanwhile, all 5 of my mechanical groups are working perfectly, one of which I pulled out of storage after not riding it for about 10 years, gave the barrel adjuster a quick twist to accommodate a different rear wheel, and it works perfectly. New cables are coming soon, should be in the mailbox today or tomorrow.

Summary, throw on a mech RD and shifter ;-) problem solved!!!

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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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I really don't mind mechanical, and I kind of like being the only pro at every race not running electric, but I'll be god damned if I don't desire perfect shifting. I'm so bad at indexing but even when I feel like it's good, I'll then work on something on Summer's bike and I'm just blown away by how great it feels, even though it's not current gen. Plus traveling would be easier.

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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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I learnt the hard way at the 2016 70.3 worlds due to a malfunction in my DI2 system caused by the dew in transition overnight that my battery was flat in the morning. I went to the Shimano help and they gave me a new internal battery as I was using but still dead. Alas I had to ride the entire race in my biggest gear...

Anyways I ordered a new internal battery after the race and it didn't work. So I got another and that didn't work either WTF? Everything had been working purchased online before and just plugged it together. I went to my local shop and they plugged the computer in and after hours of scratching our heads we eventually worked out that Shimano was trying to phase out the junction I was using sm-ew67a and started making the newer batteries with later firmware not compatible with internal batteries but still compatible with external batteries. Hence the original old firmware battery worked but the one I tried on race day and later didn't forcing me to go to an external battery.
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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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realbdeal wrote:
Short cage one works great on the bike and it's definitely worth a try. Looks like they sell fairly cheap, can I pay you for shipping and a few $?

Send me a PM and we can figure it out. I'll have to figure out which one the confirmed working one first before sending it.

FYI, my response might be delayed as I haven't been receiving Slowtwitch notifications emails for the past week it seems.
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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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I believe a quick google search before you did this would have shown you what is and isn't compatible.

di2 for the most part is pretty easy. But like any tech, it's not going to be compatible forever. Like hub spacing...
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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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These issues from Shimano are why I am a Campy guy. The stuff lasts forever and they tend to keep formats for much longer than the rest of the industry. I think the free hub spacing has been consistent since the introduction of the 8-speed freehub (though I donā€™t know about the 12-speed stuff). I have set up 11 speed Campy bikes for my nephew with an old Specialized (not even HED era) TriSpoke and a cheap Shimano Campy conversion hub. That wheel was probably 15 years old, bare minimum.
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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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I think that index shifting is here to stay

May just have to upgrade my downtube friction shifter

šŸ˜€
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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier wrote:
I believe a quick google search before you did this would have shown you what is and isn't compatible.

di2 for the most part is pretty easy. But like any tech, it's not going to be compatible forever. Like hub spacing...
All of these parts are 100% compatible. I was running them in a perfect configuration and wanted to add one more compatible part to it. That should be plug and play. I agree that di2 is pretty easy, and I'm more than competent with technology, but this is some terrible engineering from Shimano.

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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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Di2 is great until it has issues. Ive never had to deal with shimano directly, but if your local shop is good they might be able to help you out with a warranty claim. Mine did.

I have Ultegra di2 on my IA10 and it was flawless for a few years. Eventually it couldn't hold a charge for longer than 2 days. I replaced the battery and it still had the same issue. Took it in to a bike shop before this season (which may not even happen) and they couldn't charge the battery so they got shimano to warranty it. Took my bike home with a new battery and 2-3 days later the battery is dead again.

I started trouble shooting by disconnecting 1 thing at at time and waited a few days. Its not the shifters since the battery still drains with them disconnected. Its probably not the battery since this is the 3rd battery to behave this way.

So its either a junction box, cables or the derailleurs. I'm probably just going to take it back to the shop to have them figure it out since I don't want to take the bike apart and deal with the internal routing. I'm in no hurry since all my races are effectively cancelled for the year.

I like Di2, especially on the tri bike, but I also like the mechanical groupsets on all my other bikes. Now that I have had issues I would think twice before going Di2 again. I'd be more likely to go with sram if I wanted electronic, since the setup of the wireless components is supposed to be very easy.
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Re: Rant: Is part of Shimano's marketing strategy for di2 intentionally killing parts to make you buy new ones? [j.shanney] [ In reply to ]
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It is either the 5/3 port junction, most of the time with that issue, sometimes the deraiileur that die to a firmware glitch or bad installed that make the system ā€˜thinkā€™ that there is constant shifting going on.
Replace the junction box and test it. Most of the time we see an issue like yours it is the junction box that somehow go screwed.

But it is like 1 on a 100 of di2 bikes ;-)

Jeroen

Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands
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