"Thanks for checking on that! For what wheel specifically? Is this for the Super 9 Disc? Not the 858 correct?"
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I'm not trying to answer for him, but I will say that it must be the Disc because the 858 (commercially available one) is not tubeless ready.


And, I will add that it must depend on who you talk to at Zipp . . . I made the same inquiry with a different answer. On an 858 front, they said the 23 would be the most aerodynamic, but they recommended a 25. On the Super 9 disc they recommended a 25 and even a 28 on a disc Brake bike with clearance.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Thanks David. That helps. Cheers!

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Cheers, Ray

So I got Super 9 clincher disc w/Conti 5000 25mm for the rear and NSW 858 w/Conti 5000 23mm for the front. My bike has rim brakes and I put Vittoria latex tubes in them. Are you guys sure about this set up?? It's way heavier than my old setup which is Zipp tubular disc and 808. I use Continental Competition tires 23mm front and 25mm rear. After I set these up, I was like why the hell these are so heavy??? I haven't ridden my bike yet with new wheels, but I'm a little skeptical about these.

My best guess...The new set-up will be faster even if it is heavier or even if the tires are not perfectly aero optimized to match the rims.

My logic...the advantage gained from the latex tubes in your new clinchers as opposed the butyl tubes in those tubular Competitions will trump any potential aero disadvantage of the new set-up. I'm not saying the new set-up has an aero disadvantage. I'm just saying that in this case, the gains in RR will outweigh any minor losses in aero.

Ok, good to hear. I will have to ride coming weekend. I will report back. Thank you!

It will be way faster because the Conti tubulars were butyl tubes. Only the pros get latex in Conti tubulars, which is probably why they add the “Pro”to the logo. Your glue job also has to be really good for a tubular to match the Crr of a similarly constructed clincher. I wouldn’t be surprised if the new setup wasn’t at least 10 watts faster.

I not long ago went from a Hed Stinger disc and Hed GT3 trispoke tubs to a Hed Jet disc and Hed H3+ trispoke front lacing them both with Conti 5000 TL tyres. I have no data but the bike is so much nicer to ride and they feel faster. I always thought good tubs were fast but I'm now convinced clincher technology is now significantly faster and the way to go. Unless you are racing hills weight is not the significant factor v rolling resistance.

The Continental Competition tubular tires are quite slow when compared to the Continental GP5000 clincher tires with latex tubes.

I live in Texas, so it's mostly flat here.

I asked here before about the tubular tires because I was using Conti Gatorskin.
As recommended, I switched to Competitions and they felt faster than Gatorskin for sure.
Ok, I can't wait to test ride my new setup.
It's funny I installed Vittoria latex tubes, but I don't see or feel any difference other than it's just so damn pink!!

Victoria Corsa Speed tubular tires would have been faster than the Competition tubular tires.

I used that before but I had a couple of flats, so switched to Gatorskin to be safe. Victoria Corsa Speed is fast, but too weak and fragile.
I think Competition is ok right in the middle. Puncture resistance and somewhat fast.

Flat tires are usually just bad luck.

Speed on the flat is only minimally about weight. Even then it's only while accelerating or due to it's small impact on rolling resistance.
While a heavier rider may be significantly slower for the same power even on the flat that's because a lighter person is a smaller/slimmer person and thus more aerodynamic. This is not applicable to your wheels or tyres.
Aerodynamics and rolling resistance coefficient are both massively more important than weight. On very hilly routes weight is a factor, though usually still a secondary one.


Pretty much ANY smooth threaded road tyre is going to be faster than Gatorskin. They are not racing tyres so not comparable, or certainly shouldn't be considered as such.

What difference did you expect to see or feel? There may be a barely detectable difference in ride feel but I seriously doubt most people could tell in a blind test. I ride both latex and butyl. Latex lives on my tri bike but I have butyl on my road bike for those occasions when do long fast descents and I'm not willing to take even the smallest risk on a heat related blowout. I certainly wouldn't be confident I could tell you which tubes were in the tyres based on feel.
If you think people can reliably feel when something is faster, think again. The evidence is to the contrary - review writers who tell you how they can feel that this product is fast are 99% of the time either lying or fell victim to the power of suggestion and the marketting BS.
The strain gauge, pitot tube, power meter and clock will tell you what's fast. The riders senses are essentially useless.

Upgrade from tubular wheels to clinchers have been a huge success. My bike rides like butter now. I rode total 90 miles(40 & 50) and it's comfortable, fast and my legs are not as tired as before after I'm done. Conti 5000 tires are very sticky, so I was able to turn corners on aero bars. There's an 'S' turn. I ride same course and wasn't able to do that before. 50 mile ride was on road with bad chip seal, but my shoulder and arms were not as tired as before and I felt like I could go on forever. I would say I shaved off about 30 sec to 1 min in 10 mile loop. Here's the detail:

- Front: Zipp 858 NSW, Continental 5000 23mm, Vittoria latex tube 700 x 23c w/48mm valve, 40mm ProblemSolver valve extender
- Rear: Zipp Super 9 Disc, Continental 5000 25mm, Vittoria latex tube 700 x 25c
- Tire pressure 90psi
- Got butyl tube for spare

Thanks for all your help!!

I use DT Swiss ARC1400 80mm Front and Yoeleo D5 Disc with DT Swiss 240 hub on rear

I chose the Yoeleo partly due to the aero test published by Hambini... I know he is not the most popular guy here, but he is a decent aerodynamicist and he does know his stuff. If I felt that Zipp was faster then I would have gone for them.

I use 23mm GP5000 with Latex tube on the front and 25mm GP5000 with latex tube on the rear. According to data from Swiss Side, a 23mm tyre on the front has 10w lower rolling resistance than a 25mm. On the rear JP Ballard recommends 25mm as it doesn't have as much aero penalty and it does have a slight rolling resistance benefit

I am really pleased with my setup, faster than I was last year, however, I have a faster bike, faster wheels and am fitter overall

Is there any reason that you're not riding your Conti5000 on the Super-9 as a tubeless (i.e. 5000TL)? I ask because I am picking up a new Super-9 this winter and there wasn't the option with my old Zipp disc.

Not that it matters in this context but I'll be sticking with my Enve 6.7 front (23mm, latex tube) until the slush fund refills itself. The 858 front is a sweet way to go. I used to have the 808 front and it was a bit freaky on fast, windy descents.

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Kiwami NA Racing Team