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50 MPW Run Schedule
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For those of you who run 50ish MPW, how do you schedule your week? Do you find starting to do doubles at this mileage is easier?

I’m good for 30 MPW right now but I’m thinking about bumping up my run volume as it looks like most of the tri races are done for the year. I want to see how my body responds as I would like to take a crack at some marathons in 2021-2022 in hopes of snagging a BQ time.
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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [Parkland] [ In reply to ]
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Doubles makes it much easier. When I would run over 50 mpw I’d do at least 1 double run day but 2 many times. One would be like 10 miles in the am with intervals/tempo then 5-6 in the pm. Then another day might be 2x 5-6 miles easy.

But plans would be usually Tuesday intervals on a double run, Thursday/friday might be 8-9 with some strength then long run on the weekends with race pace intervals once race prep starts. Monday would be as slow as I could run and then filled in the rest of the days z1-2.

Working on making my plan now and I’m at about 35-40 now with no doubles. But coming off foot surgery in feb I’m trying to take it easy and not rush back.

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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [jrielley] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah doubles are great.

You could do 5mi every day and 3 days with double 5mi (5mi in morning and night or 10mi long run for day).

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney
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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [Parkland] [ In reply to ]
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From about mid-2015 through early 2019 I averaged 55-60 mpw. I can count on one hand the number of times I double days. Simply not necessary.

This was my basic structure:

M - Rest day (always and non-negotiable)
T - 6-8 miles (including 6-10 x 2 mins tempo in the middle)
W - 10-12 miles aerobic
T- 6 miles easy with strides at the end
F - 4-6 miles easy
S - 10-15 miles easy
S - 20-25 miles easy

It was relatively easy to get between 65-70 miles on a regular basis. I got it up to 75ish a few times as well. I was doing no swimming during this time (or any since 2015) and very little biking (super easy afternoon rides 2 or 3 times per week).
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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [Parkland] [ In reply to ]
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Don't overthink it. I run 40-55mpw as a baseline with spurts in the 60+ range. Run every day, or as many days as you can, run at a conversational effort/jog and throw in some hill sprints or striders a few times a week. Make one run longer than the others. Once you've reached your goal volume, throw in a 20-40min tempo effort once per week, or don't, if you're still making improvements just on volume. You can bump your volume up a lot pretty much overnight so long as you keep your easy pace in check (FWIW - I'm in ~17 flat shape for 5km and <1:20 HM shape, and I run almost all of my mileage at 8-8:20/mi, sometimes slower if I'm pushing the envelope with mileage!). The plan doesn't need to be complicated, I got in great shape off of:

M - 7mi (I had a go-to 7mi loop - yours might be 5/6/etc)
T - 7mi
W - 7mi
TH - 7mi
F - 7mi
S - 10-13mi, maybe progress and run some of this steady, maybe all easy
S - 10mi, same deal as Saturday but never hard two days in a row

Always missed one of the 7mi runs, so I was usually at 6 days/week. Did a lot of bodyweight strength training, so I typically would do some of that if I missed a run just to have trained that day. The progression could be any day of the week, lacked structure, or I might run steady a few times but never hard. Some days 7 might take 45-46min, some days it might take 60min. You'll know when to push and when to go through the motions.

If you want more mileage than that, run 2x/day. I find once I'm doing more than an hour in a single run each day I start to break down, and it's easier to do one 45-60min run and one shorter 25-40min run. You can also sustain a slightly faster effort on the split runs vs the longer single.

Don't be afraid to run super slow while adjusting.

"Don't you have to go be stupid somewhere else?"..."Not until 4!"
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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [Parkland] [ In reply to ]
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my main exercise right now is running.

One hrs + per day every day gets me there. No long runs, but I go to the track 1x per week and run hills 1x per week. I am biking 5 days per week too. Nothing long either 1-2 hrs typically.
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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [logella] [ In reply to ]
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That is a pretty good plan if it works for your schedule. During my last marathon build I did not take a day off but would put in like 16-18 miles mid week in 2 runs then 20+ on one weekend day. I could not get 16 miles midweek in one run but I did 10-11 before work then snuck in the rest at lunch. There was also one build I got 18-22 miles 2x a week with a midweek 2 a day then weekend long run.

But this just shows there are SO many ways to get the mileage one wants with the time they have. I never needed a rest day but Mondays were SUPER easy. I did 7-9 Saturday then long Sunday or vice versa. I just like doubles time wise for me. I also found it was a good trick to not eat so much during the double run day. After long runs I feel so hungry all day but if I knew I had to run later I would be smart! So a bit easier to keep weight under control, ha.

Right now I am just trying to run everyday, add in miles during each week and see what I can do. Need a goal since I am sure Chicago will be cancelled so right now I am just running for fitness but then time to go after some KOMs or see how fast I can run a mile or something. Need that carrot to keep pushing!


logella wrote:
From about mid-2015 through early 2019 I averaged 55-60 mpw. I can count on one hand the number of times I double days. Simply not necessary.

This was my basic structure:

M - Rest day (always and non-negotiable)
T - 6-8 miles (including 6-10 x 2 mins tempo in the middle)
W - 10-12 miles aerobic
T- 6 miles easy with strides at the end
F - 4-6 miles easy
S - 10-15 miles easy
S - 20-25 miles easy

It was relatively easy to get between 65-70 miles on a regular basis. I got it up to 75ish a few times as well. I was doing no swimming during this time (or any since 2015) and very little biking (super easy afternoon rides 2 or 3 times per week).

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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [rucker] [ In reply to ]
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rucker wrote:
Don't overthink it. I run 40-55mpw as a baseline with spurts in the 60+ range. Run every day, or as many days as you can, run at a conversational effort/jog and throw in some hill sprints or striders a few times a week. Make one run longer than the others. Once you've reached your goal volume, throw in a 20-40min tempo effort once per week, or don't, if you're still making improvements just on volume. You can bump your volume up a lot pretty much overnight so long as you keep your easy pace in check (FWIW - I'm in ~17 flat shape for 5km and <1:20 HM shape, and I run almost all of my mileage at 8-8:20/mi, sometimes slower if I'm pushing the envelope with mileage!). The plan doesn't need to be complicated, I got in great shape off of:

M - 7mi (I had a go-to 7mi loop - yours might be 5/6/etc)
T - 7mi
W - 7mi
TH - 7mi
F - 7mi
S - 10-13mi, maybe progress and run some of this steady, maybe all easy
S - 10mi, same deal as Saturday but never hard two days in a row

Always missed one of the 7mi runs, so I was usually at 6 days/week. Did a lot of bodyweight strength training, so I typically would do some of that if I missed a run just to have trained that day. The progression could be any day of the week, lacked structure, or I might run steady a few times but never hard. Some days 7 might take 45-46min, some days it might take 60min. You'll know when to push and when to go through the motions.

If you want more mileage than that, run 2x/day. I find once I'm doing more than an hour in a single run each day I start to break down, and it's easier to do one 45-60min run and one shorter 25-40min run. You can also sustain a slightly faster effort on the split runs vs the longer single.

Don't be afraid to run super slow while adjusting.

I’m thinking this is the schedule that would probably gel with my life schedule best. I’d have to build up the long run on the weekend once I got into the marathon phase, but I think that would be fine if I’m used to 45-55 MPW routinely. Thanks for the detailed response!
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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [logella] [ In reply to ]
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Wow! I’d need a rest day on Monday after that Saturday and Sunday schedule! I like the idea of a longish day midweek like you have on Wednesday as well.
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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [Parkland] [ In reply to ]
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A few questions will help better inform a plan for you:

(1) How many hours do you plan to run or swim during each week? OR do you plan to do primarily a 6-10+ weeks running focused build?

(2) Have you ever run 50+ miles in a week on a regular basis?

(3) What is your 10 km, half marathon and marathon most recent / best times?

(4) What is your current HR Zone 2 running pace for one hour? i.e., how many miles/km would you cover in a 1-hour run

(5) Any history of running injuries?

The specific plan can then include progression, time spent in different HR/Effort zones, mix of workouts, etc.

A general plan follows something like this:

Monday - day off
Tuesday - Tempo run; total time 75 min with 30-40 min at tempo pace
Wednesday - 20 to 30 min of Z1 easy running with a few strides at the end
Thursday - Alternating weeks of long hill repeats OR strength intervals (i.e., 6-8 x 1 km or 4 x 1 mile)
Saturday - 30 to 45 min easy run in Z1 on trails or soft surface
Sunday - longer run, build to 2:30+ hours
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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [bs13] [ In reply to ]
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bs13 wrote:
A few questions will help better inform a plan for you:

(1) How many hours do you plan to run or swim during each week? OR do you plan to do primarily a 6-10+ weeks running focused build?

This will be a run focused build. I may keep a bike workout in the mix for cross training and to justify keeping my tri bike ;)

(2) Have you ever run 50+ miles in a week on a regular basis?

I haven’t. Even in my previous marathon builds, I grossly undertrained primarily due to laziness.

(3) What is your 10 km, half marathon and marathon most recent / best times?

10k: 43:00 (Last weekend)
13.1: 1:40:46 (February 2020)
Both of these were on approximately 25 MPW average. I haven’t ran a marathon in over 5 years.

(4) What is your current HR Zone 2 running pace for one hour? i.e., how many miles/km would you cover in a 1-hour run

I can cover 7-7.5 miles comfortably in an hour. I’ve kind of steered away from monitoring my HR routinely. I’ll wear my HRM for a run here and there, but not religiously. I felt like I was becoming too fixated on my HR versus how I was feeling.

(5) Any history of running injuries?

None. Don’t think I’ve ever really pushed my mileage up enough for any to sneak up on me.

The specific plan can then include progression, time spent in different HR/Effort zones, mix of workouts, etc.

A general plan follows something like this:

Monday - day off
Tuesday - Tempo run; total time 75 min with 30-40 min at tempo pace
Wednesday - 20 to 30 min of Z1 easy running with a few strides at the end
Thursday - Alternating weeks of long hill repeats OR strength intervals (i.e., 6-8 x 1 km or 4 x 1 mile)
Saturday - 30 to 45 min easy run in Z1 on trails or soft surface
Sunday - longer run, build to 2:30+ hours

I went through and answered your questions within the quoted text. I think it’ll be easier that way. Thanks for the response!
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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [Parkland] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with those that said you can get by without doubles. But...when I was marathon training, following run-only and maintaining 60-70 mpw, the runs on my double days always had a significant difference. For example, a 3-mile EASY run before work and an 8-mile tempo run after work. I never ran them at the same intensity or mileage after some advice from a few 2:24 fellas I worked with.
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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [Parkland] [ In reply to ]
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I tend to do 1 or 2 days a week that have doubles, but that's more about finding time in my schedule than anything else. I live around 4km from my office and only save around 5 minutes by taking public transportation instead of running there, so if I don't need to be too presentable at the office I'll run commute both ways - usually just the 4km on one of those legs, and 8-12km on the other. It's worked out well so far.
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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [Parkland] [ In reply to ]
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For marathon training I wouldn't double at 50mpw. For a 10k I would double.

I run:
Monday: Rest
Tuesday: 8-10 miles
Wednesday:8-10 miles
Thursday:8-10 miles (rest if necessary or I want to)
Friday: 8-10 miles
Saturday: 6 miles
Sunday:about 13 miles.

You could start off doubling and either start increasing the distance of your longer run of the day, or start switching out the doubles for longer singles over time. I don't find that lots of short runs are the best marathon training, you need to get used to some longer runs, not just once a week.
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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [Parkland] [ In reply to ]
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I use the BarryP run plan following the 1:2:3 ratio rule he recommends. That comes out to 3x 5mile runs, 2x 10mile runs, and 1x 15mile run. Almost all at an easy pace, but I do 20-60 minutes of tempo or threshold running (depending on duration) during one of the10 mile runs each week.
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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [Parkland] [ In reply to ]
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Parkland wrote:
bs13 wrote:
A few questions will help better inform a plan for you:

(1) How many hours do you plan to run or swim during each week? OR do you plan to do primarily a 6-10+ weeks running focused build?

This will be a run focused build. I may keep a bike workout in the mix for cross training and to justify keeping my tri bike ;)

Recommendation: Consider a 16 week build for your targeted marathon. See if you can slowly build up to consistent 35 to 40 miles per week prior to the build. If you are running 25 mpw now then add 10% each week perhaps with a few min plateaus to allow your body to adapt until you get to 40 mph - so maybe something like this: 25, 27, 30, 30, 32, 32, 30, 35, 35, 35, 30, 35, 37, 37, 30, 35, 37, 40. This strategy will hopefully keep you injury free and allow you to adapt well to the new training load. You will then be able to enter a dedicated 16 week marathon prep. If you can maintain 3-5 hours of cycling each week as active recovery or to add in an extra intensity work a week that would be great. Many top/pro triathletes will cap there long runs at 2:30 hours followed directly by 1-2 hours of cycling to continue to build a bigger endurance/aerobic engine.

(2) Have you ever run 50+ miles in a week on a regular basis?

I haven’t. Even in my previous marathon builds, I grossly undertrained primarily due to laziness.

Recommendation: Per above, build up the base slowly in preparation for a dedicated marathon build.

(3) What is your 10 km, half marathon and marathon most recent / best times?

10k: 43:00 (Last weekend)
13.1: 1:40:46 (February 2020)
Both of these were on approximately 25 MPW average. I haven’t ran a marathon in over 5 years.

Recommendation: Setting a goal time for the marathon will help determine pacing for workouts. Based on 43 min 10 km then on current fitness this would equate to about 3:50 +/- hours for the marathon. If you plan to increase you mileage to a consistent 50 mpw then something in the 3:20 to 3:30 range is achievable and perhaps faster with a great training block and the right racing conditions.

(4) What is your current HR Zone 2 running pace for one hour? i.e., how many miles/km would you cover in a 1-hour run

I can cover 7-7.5 miles comfortably in an hour. I’ve kind of steered away from monitoring my HR routinely. I’ll wear my HRM for a run here and there, but not religiously. I felt like I was becoming too fixated on my HR versus how I was feeling.

Recommendation: It would be great to monitor your Training Stress Score (TSS) for each workout and each week based on a combination of pace and HR if possible. You can then target what effort/pace zone to run each workout at. Based on a 43 min 10 km your current training zone would be something like this:

Workout TypePace/miPace/km Z1 - Easy 9:03 - 10:03 5:37 - 6:14 Z2 - Moderate 8:33 - 9:33 5:18 - 5:56 Z3 - Long Runs 8:03 - 9:33 5:00 - 5:56 Z4 - Speed Workouts 6:38 - 6:55 4:07 - 4:18 Z5 - Vo2max Workouts 6:17 - 6:38 3:54 - 4:07 Z5a - Lactate Threshold 6:55 - 7:13 4:18 - 4:29 Strength Workouts 7:23 4:35 Half Mar Tempos 7:14 4:30 Marathon Tempos 7:33 4:41



(5) Any history of running injuries?

None. Don’t think I’ve ever really pushed my mileage up enough for any to sneak up on me.

The specific plan can then include progression, time spent in different HR/Effort zones, mix of workouts, etc.

A general plan follows something like this:

Monday - day off
Tuesday - Tempo run; total time 75 min with 30-40 min at half-marathon tempo pace
Wednesday - 20 to 30 min of Z1 easy running with a few strides at the end
Thursday - Alternating weeks of long hill repeats OR strength intervals (i.e., 6-8 x 1 km or 4 x 1 mile); these are run at 10km race pace
Saturday - 30 to 45 min easy run in Z1 on trails or soft surface
Sunday - longer run, build to 2:30+ hours


I went through and answered your questions within the quoted text. I think it’ll be easier that way. Thanks for the response!
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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [Parkland] [ In reply to ]
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I run between 40-55mpw and usually run 5 or 6x per week. My normal run or typical base run is usually around 8.5 miles.
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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [Parkland] [ In reply to ]
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I definitely don't think it's necessary to double at 50 mpw.

For marathon training I would second the value of running 6+ days a week and doing a lot of runs in the 60-90 minute range rather than polarizing distance to be either short or very long; e.g., barryp 15-10-10-5-5-5 is better than 20-6-6-6-6-6. Others may disagree with this, but relatedly I also don't think THE LONG RUN is as fundamental to marathon training as putting in enough weekly volume and getting in a lot of moderately long runs in the 9-15 mile range. IMO, putting too much of your weekly distance into a single run makes it take too long to recover from and detracts from being able to squeeze as much out of your training as ideal. I'll typically only log 5 runs longer than 18 miles in a 12-16 week training cycle where I average 55-65 miles/week -- but I will average 2-3 runs a week that are longer than 10 miles.
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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [Parkland] [ In reply to ]
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For people running 50 mpw + what's your biking hours or bike tss looking like?

Will doing 2x days getting to 50+ MPW with easy runs improve marathon times on IM leg?

IG -frebay | Strava
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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [bs13] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the detailed response! Your paces line up pretty closely to what I am doing right now for my easy runs and threshold runs. Your 3:50 prediction is pretty close as my last marathon was a 3:45 on around 30 MPW. I'm going to step up to 30-35 MPW for a couple of weeks and build from there. Thanks again for the time it took to write all that up.
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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [Parkland] [ In reply to ]
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4
1.5; 4.5
9.5
1.5; 4.5
9.5
2; 4
15

Total: 56

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Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [frebay] [ In reply to ]
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frebay wrote:
For people running 50 mpw + what's your biking hours or bike tss looking like?

Will doing 2x days getting to 50+ MPW with easy runs improve marathon times on IM leg?

90m
90m
4h
90m

Yes

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: 50 MPW Run Schedule [Parkland] [ In reply to ]
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Parkland wrote:
Thanks for the detailed response! Your paces line up pretty closely to what I am doing right now for my easy runs and threshold runs. Your 3:50 prediction is pretty close as my last marathon was a 3:45 on around 30 MPW. I'm going to step up to 30-35 MPW for a couple of weeks and build from there. Thanks again for the time it took to write all that up.

Your welcome. Best of luck in your prep, race build and the race!
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