We've been doing that our whole lives. You could catch the flu or norovirus (or something else) at a race and pass it on to someone who gets sick or dies. You could crash on the bike, take someone down with you and they could get hurt or killed. You're risking your life and others when you drive to the race.

We're just comfortable with all those risks because they're not new.

From what I read, Andrew was explicitly shaming that poster for considering going into a legal race saying that he is taking chances with lives of others.

You read wrong. I was not shaming anybody. I was pointing out that there is community risk that is unlike anything we have ever dealt with. Yes, I could crash on my bike and take out another rider. But my crash won't cause my wife or neighbor or students to die. These are real and complex moral issues that cannot be boiled down to "its legal and therefore it is OK to do it."

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Andrew Inkpen

Who decides what the moral bar is if the legal bar is not good enough? You? Vlad Putin? Jacinda Ardern? Gary Bettman? Narendra Modi? My 1st year stats prof ? My Macroeconomics Prof? WHO?

Of course there is community risk and that's why we don't have open businesses, we don't have open museums, cinemas, youth sport, gyms, hotels (the list is fairly endless).

We're just talking about WHEN various types of businesses are cleared by health authorities who advise politicians when and how various businesses can operate. The time to push what should be morally done is before any of these open. Once they are open, you or I don't get to decide what moral bar is good enough. This is why we have laws (the moral aspects tend to be considered and built in by lawmakers).

Absolutely, if it is legal it is OK for everyone to do that activity. Its also OK for individual to choose not to do something, but its not OK for them to be shaming others just because they don't want to do that activitty.

You're doing most of the "shaming" here.

For sure I am. That was exactly the point. If no one calls out those for shaming people for not doing anything wrong, then it just multiplies. Someone has to call it out before it turns into a pile on. A large group of people stay quiet scared to say anything that questions the line of them not doing enough to extend life spans or fellow humans. Most people are doing everything we can. When we are legally allowed to do other things, that's the discussion. If some don't like legal activities, now they can slow them down from happenning with their govts.

ITU is just releasing guidelines for when its all legal in each location.

Too true.

Plenty of folks here write about how they don't want to ride on the roads because they have a wife and kids and are scared of getting seriously injured or killed in a collision with a motor vehicle. By stating that, are they shaming those of us who do continue to ride on the roads, which, of course, is legal?

I don't see how that is different than Andrew's questions about doing a race because there's a chance that he or any other person who does the race could catch COVID-19 and pass it on to someone else. I don't remember you criticizing the many folks who worry about riding on the roads for shaming those of us who do choose to do a legal activity.

For me there is a difference between something being legal and something being moral. Just because I am a cyclist should I ride for pleasure and fitness, or should I just ride when I need to get to work and have essential journeys? If a key worker rides to work that is morally fine in my book. Other situations less so - even of they are legal. The message is clear - stay indoors.

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He who understands the WHY, will understand the HOW.

Dev nailed this, the point of the guideline (which is an evergreen document by the way, and will continue to be updated as available evidence changes) is to start to provide RDs with some guidelines for organizing events when it is safe and legal to do so in their jurisdictions. The bar they are setting will apply to their sanctioned events, it's up to the National Federations and provincial/state federations to implement this or a variation of this for their other events. I suspect the first races to return will be smaller local events, with limited access for out of jurisdiction athletes (Tri Canada sent an email yesterday about the return to racing, suggesting that it will be the provinces that dictate this when the restrictions are lifted, and that at first there will be no out of province racers)...

Rogue events are one thing, those going ahead against laws and restrictions are an issue. Once restrictions start to ease, it's up to the federations, and race directors as to when they proceed and what measures they need to implement, and up to the athletes to make a decision as to whether they want to race and take on those risks.

I think it is perfectly fine it Andew does not want to do a legal race because he is worried he may spread Covid19 or someone else who is scared to do a legal ride in fear of crashing for his own family. Its different than telling someone else to not legally ride for their family or the family of someone else who could get taken down in a crash.

Do you see the difference.

Yes. We disagree whether Andrew was telling Hollywood not to race.

Not really...but keep saying it if it makes you feel better about yourself.

Only a sith deals in absolutes

Aside from a few countries in Europe I have not heard "stay indoors." Most social distancing orders in the US have explicitly allowed for outdoor exercise & recreation.

I commute by bike to my healthcare job, but can also easily ride or run outdoors while maintaining social distancing. What's morally superior about staying indoors?

Agreed. There's nothing wrong with asking someone to be conscientious about a choice, whether or not it's "legal."

While this is a site for committed and enthusiastic competitors (in the main) the reality of staging races in the coming months will come down to how many, not so committed people, will accept the additional risk, or perceived risk, or the unassumed risk this current situation presents.

We all blithely sign the forms that already boldly state if anything goes wrong it's your fault and not ours, and yeah if I fall off my bike, trip over my shoe laces, have a heart attack, drown, it is my problem.

But when the form says you might catch a highly contagious disease, which can spread to all of your family and possibly spread from there, and that's on you, sign here. There might be just the slightest hesitation. I have a dilemma, the stats say that I am only at a slightly higher risk than from the flu, so I accept that risk and I'm mostly healthy. But members of my family don't have the same level of health. In every age group racers will have family, friends and coworkers with health issues that span the spectrum of dangerous pre-existing conditions. And speaking of pre-existing conditions, wonder what the, for profit, insurance companies will have to say about it when you make a claim in the USA after exposing yourself to a known danger.

Lot of those racers will say, I will accept that risk, on their behalf (just writing that is scary) and a whole lot will say, I just wanted to have a go, I don't need this, you know what, I think I'll pass this time around. And that is what will decide if, for the near future, these races will continue. We all get to do this because there are enough participants to make it work. Take away the numbers and you take away the business model it is all built on.

We get to race and the sport/events exist because of the numbers.

Take away the numbers and you take away the business model it is all built on.

We get to race and the sport/events exist because of the numbers.



Michael,

BINGO!

Great points. The massed numbers are what make the Endurance Sports Race/Event Business viable, but just!

At the risk of tooting my own horn, at 2pm (EDT), on Friday May 8 (tomorrow), I will be doing a live interview on behalf of a client with two expert guests - Dr. Jonathan Hooper, Chief Medical Officer for the Ottawa Marathon, and a triathlete himself, and Kevin Jones, the Executive Director, of Odyssey Medical, the largest supplier of outdoor race/event onsite medical services in Canada. That interview will be streamed live here - https://www.facebook.com/iRunMagazine/ and you can watch it on-demand after the fact to from that Facebook page.

We'll try and get into the details of when races/events may happen again, and what they may look like.

If anyone has questions - please respond to me or send me a PM.

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Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

I saw your note on Facebook. So the only questions I would likely ask is which countries are better situated to hold future races.

Off the top of my head.

Canada, lots of space, relatively sensible population/participants, public healthcare. Enthusiastic governments (ie Montreal/Toronto/Vancouver etc)

USA, lots of space, not so easily managed population regarding perceived "Freedoms" and for profit healthcare system. Not sure about enthusiastic governments.

Europe not so much space, expensive process, enthusiastic spectators, public health system, highly bureaucratic governments.

Asia Don't even know where to begin there.

Central and South America....no idea.

USAT just launched their "Safe Return to Multisport Initiative". I haven't yet read the entire document so I can't comment on its contents.

Separate thread created to discuss USAT initiative.

didn't read whole thread so sorry if this was mentioned:

Transition area: Recommended that each athlete be provided a minimum of 2m space in transition and the distance between two rows of racks be 5m or more apart. Alternating racking may be used

so for a big race with say 2000 athletes that's 4000m …. put into a square at 5m between each row …… and all I can do math wise as an arts major is say 20 rows of 20 athletes is 400m in length and 100m wide. What RD has that kind of space?

regardless, lets be real. this is for 2021.

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@rhyspencer

Sorry, but my decision to do that had nothing to do with your comment. I just thought it would be easier for those who cared primarily about the USAT initiative to find the discussion about that in a separate thread.

Looking forward to the interviews.

General question for RDs.

If a person has Covid 19, and/or is asymptomatic and decides to race, is there anything that can legally be done to stop said person.

With pools being closed there May be many participants who may not be in the best swim shape. Are their considerations for increasing the number of kayaks and also not eliminating pre race swim warmups?