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Re: When do you start ingesting caffeine in your race? [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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Please site your sources because a quick googles shows that it does work.

Instagram or twitter me softly @xatefrogg
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Re: When do you start ingesting caffeine in your race? [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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SBRcanuck wrote:
I wonder at that dose how long the effects last, is there a crash afterwards (before end of race), and can you lift back up by simply taking more a few hours later?

In the middle of the night,once the caffeine stops working then it is time for the next level......Icy Hot/Deep Heat up the nostrils... :-)
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Re: When do you start ingesting caffeine in your race? [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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No it's not. Caffeine works by blocking your adenazyne (i probably spelled that wrong) receptors which signal tiredness as they fill. As you consume more caffeine, your body makes more receptors, so the same amount of caffeine is less effective. When you back off caffeine, you no longer need the extra receptors, so your body eliminates them, making each dose more effective
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Re: When do you start ingesting caffeine in your race? [plant_based] [ In reply to ]
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plant_based wrote:
1010shane wrote:
Curious to hear about when people like to take their caffeine during the race, and how this differs for different distances.


I mainly just do 70.3s. Race morning I'll have a 5hr energy first, then a redbull in the shower, and then I have my 375mg preworkout right before the swim. I might have a coffee too. Then gels at every 10mi roughly on the bike, 100mg Clif Gel Expresso. I might have a couple gels on the run.

1010shane wrote:

Also, how much caffeine do you normally have on a given day?


I typically start off with 4 shots of espresso and then a 375mg load in my pre, leading to my first workout. I typically have another 4 shots if I do a 2/day or 3/day with 100mg gels every 10mi. I rode 492mi in the past 7 days, so likely have had 49 100mg gels - its sick.

I do feel that we can pull from our adrenal gland too much, so keep close tabs on making sure I'm not giving myself caffeine overload. Usually if I am getting caffeine overload, I get anxiety and the jitters. I back off of the caffeine at times, especially in the training phases before a race so that the potency during the race is slightly higher.
I've got to ask why you would eat so many gels, red bulls and put so much sugar through your body let alone the caffeine? If I'm going to ride longer than three hours I will have a double shot espresso before I leave and I may take a banana and an oat based energy or two bar. The cost must be huge let alone be great for your teeth or health.
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Re: When do you start ingesting caffeine in your race? [Passmore007] [ In reply to ]
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Passmore007 wrote:
Coffee in the morning before the race. one 75mg Caffeine gel midway through the bike. Then a 150mg caffeine gel 3/4 into the run. I feel like the 150mg gel gives a big boost in terms of energy and easing the pain.

If you can its best to try decrease your caffeine intake a couple of weeks before the race so it has a bigger effect for the race.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC6548757/


between men and women
Does Habitual Caffeine Use Alter Its Ergogenic Effects?

Whilst habituation is commonly identified as a factor modifying the acute response to caffeine supplementation [125], research on this topic demonstrates conflicting findings [126]. A recent review [126] explored the influence of habitual caffeine use on the ergogenic effects of an acute caffeine dose. This subject is surprisingly under-studied in human subjects, with the authors finding only four studies [127–130] utilizing a performance task. Of these, two reported a blunting (but not elimination) of caffeine’s acute ergogenic effects with habitual use [128, 129], and two reported no differences in response to acute caffeine ingestion between individuals with different habitual caffeine intakes [127, 130]. These mixed results drove the authors to propose that the difference between habitual and pre-exercise caffeine dose is potentially important; specifically, they hypothesized that high habitual caffeine users perhaps require a pre-exercise caffeine dose in excess of their habitual intake [126]. Further research is required to better understand whether this is indeed the case, especially in light of the recent findings by Lara et al. [131]. Here, participants undertook a double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized cross-over study, with subjects participating in two 20-day protocols, one with daily caffeine intake amounting to 3 mg/kg, the other with the consumption of placebo capsules. At regular intervals, the subjects undertook a maximally graded time-to-exhaustion cycle ergometer test, along with a 15-s maximal cycle ergometer sprint, with the exercise bout commencing 60 min following capsule ingestion. The authors found that, whilst caffeine remained ergogenic throughout the 20-day period, its ergogenic effects were attenuated. Such a finding suggests that partial habituation may occur. Conversely, Sabol et al. [132] reported that habitual caffeine use had no effect on the ergogenic effects of caffeine in medicine ball throw and vertical jump tests, with these latest conflicting studies further highlighting the need for additional studies in this area. Relevant studies in this area are outlined in Table 4.
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Re: When do you start ingesting caffeine in your race? [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]
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imswimmer328 wrote:
No it's not. Caffeine works by blocking your adenazyne (i probably spelled that wrong) receptors which signal tiredness as they fill. As you consume more caffeine, your body makes more receptors, so the same amount of caffeine is less effective. When you back off caffeine, you no longer need the extra receptors, so your body eliminates them, making each dose more effective

Interesting. How long does that process take?

I think reducing one's caffeine is a recipe for headaches and irritability.... not worth it.
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Re: When do you start ingesting caffeine in your race? [Seanburke] [ In reply to ]
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Seanburke wrote:
SBRcanuck wrote:
plant_based wrote:
1010shane wrote:
Curious to hear about when people like to take their caffeine during the race, and how this differs for different distances.


I mainly just do 70.3s. Race morning I'll have a 5hr energy first, then a redbull in the shower, and then I have my 375mg preworkout right before the swim. I might have a coffee too. Then gels at every 10mi roughly on the bike, 100mg Clif Gel Expresso. I might have a couple gels on the run.

1010shane wrote:

Also, how much caffeine do you normally have on a given day?


I typically start off with 4 shots of espresso and then a 375mg load in my pre, leading to my first workout. I typically have another 4 shots if I do a 2/day or 3/day with 100mg gels every 10mi. I rode 492mi in the past 7 days, so likely have had 49 100mg gels - its sick.

I do feel that we can pull from our adrenal gland too much, so keep close tabs on making sure I'm not giving myself caffeine overload. Usually if I am getting caffeine overload, I get anxiety and the jitters. I back off of the caffeine at times, especially in the training phases before a race so that the potency during the race is slightly higher.


Am I understanding correctly that all during the morning of a 70.3, you take a 5 hr energy, a redbull, plus another 375mg caffeine? So a morning total of about 600mg? Wow, thats a lot!!


The recommended dose for endurance sports is 3-9mg/kg of bodyweight, so 600mg isn't really out of line. This article from TP says 5-6mg/kg before exercise, so even with the lower recommendation hes not way beyond what research would recommend, at least pre-workout. To be fair, though, it does sound like an awful lot to me.
https://www.trainingpeaks.com/...e-endurance-athlete/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC5752738/

Yeah I'm about 180-185lbs race day. I train around that weight as well.

The 5hr energy is to wake me up slightly as sometimes race mornings I have super race dread without proper caffeine. I start to warm up in the shower and then the redbull helps me to start visualizing the race and day. By the time I finish the preworkout, I'm starting to let myself get amped and excited for the race.

When I get up to take the 5hr energy, its typically 4am. Redbull is probably up to an hour later with me drinking my preworkout at 5-7am while I'm setting up my station. During all of this time I'm drinking coconut water and pissing as needed. The amount of caffeine spread out over all of that time isn't a ton, its quite mellow for me. My main thing is getting my mind right and the caffeine build helps to do that.

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney
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Re: When do you start ingesting caffeine in your race? [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
plant_based wrote:
1010shane wrote:
Curious to hear about when people like to take their caffeine during the race, and how this differs for different distances.


I mainly just do 70.3s. Race morning I'll have a 5hr energy first, then a redbull in the shower, and then I have my 375mg preworkout right before the swim. I might have a coffee too. Then gels at every 10mi roughly on the bike, 100mg Clif Gel Expresso. I might have a couple gels on the run.

1010shane wrote:

Also, how much caffeine do you normally have on a given day?


I typically start off with 4 shots of espresso and then a 375mg load in my pre, leading to my first workout. I typically have another 4 shots if I do a 2/day or 3/day with 100mg gels every 10mi. I rode 492mi in the past 7 days, so likely have had 49 100mg gels - its sick.

I do feel that we can pull from our adrenal gland too much, so keep close tabs on making sure I'm not giving myself caffeine overload. Usually if I am getting caffeine overload, I get anxiety and the jitters. I back off of the caffeine at times, especially in the training phases before a race so that the potency during the race is slightly higher.

I've got to ask why you would eat so many gels, red bulls and put so much sugar through your body let alone the caffeine? If I'm going to ride longer than three hours I will have a double shot espresso before I leave and I may take a banana and an oat based energy or two bar. The cost must be huge let alone be great for your teeth or health.

My dentist said I have excellent teeth. They are pretty good. I think I was genetically gifted with good teeth. I don't get cavities that often and the gels don't affect them.

As far as my health is concerned, I know I am putting pressure on my adrenal glands and also am at risk for a cardiac condition. But, I have a strong RHR which I think is indicative of how much I have overworked my system.

I view caffeine as similar to nitrous in a car. If your engine isn't able to hold heavy boosts of nitrous, its going to tear apart your car. I have a relatively large engine, large metabolism, and intake a massive amount of fluids, so the capacity for me to push a bit with caffeine is relatively within its limits. My immune system is a beast and is unaffected. I think my intake is pretty good and I try to get in as many greens as possible. I think taking care of your body and pampering it as much as possible will enable moderate caffeine loads.

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney
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Re: When do you start ingesting caffeine in your race? [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier wrote:

I think reducing one's caffeine is a recipe for headaches and irritability.... not worth it.

I feel going to green tea and drinking as much of it as possible is a good way to cut down caffeine without going off of it completely.

https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney
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Re: When do you start ingesting caffeine in your race? [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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ThailandUltras wrote:
SBRcanuck wrote:
I wonder at that dose how long the effects last, is there a crash afterwards (before end of race), and can you lift back up by simply taking more a few hours later?


In the middle of the night,once the caffeine stops working then it is time for the next level......Icy Hot/Deep Heat up the nostrils... :-)

So glad you finished that sentence with "nostrils".

I was seriously worried where you were going there for a moment. :-\
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Re: When do you start ingesting caffeine in your race? [Vols] [ In reply to ]
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I use whatever generic brand is at the drugstore. Around 10 cents a dose compared to the fools paying $4 for a 5-hr energy or Red Bull. Sometimes I’ll have coffee or whatever else is available if convenient.
Last edited by: Nick2413: Apr 9, 20 5:59
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Re: When do you start ingesting caffeine in your race? [1010shane] [ In reply to ]
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A cup or two of coffee in the morning, shortly after waking up. Nothing after. My caffeine intake doesn't change in any way on race day compared to any other day.
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Re: When do you start ingesting caffeine in your race? [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]
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MrTri123 wrote:
Passmore007 wrote:
Coffee in the morning before the race. one 75mg Caffeine gel midway through the bike. Then a 150mg caffeine gel 3/4 into the run. I feel like the 150mg gel gives a big boost in terms of energy and easing the pain.

If you can its best to try decrease your caffeine intake a couple of weeks before the race so it has a bigger effect for the race.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...articles/PMC6548757/


between men and women
Does Habitual Caffeine Use Alter Its Ergogenic Effects?

Whilst habituation is commonly identified as a factor modifying the acute response to caffeine supplementation [125], research on this topic demonstrates conflicting findings [126]. A recent review [126] explored the influence of habitual caffeine use on the ergogenic effects of an acute caffeine dose. This subject is surprisingly under-studied in human subjects, with the authors finding only four studies [127–130] utilizing a performance task. Of these, two reported a blunting (but not elimination) of caffeine’s acute ergogenic effects with habitual use [128, 129], and two reported no differences in response to acute caffeine ingestion between individuals with different habitual caffeine intakes [127, 130]. These mixed results drove the authors to propose that the difference between habitual and pre-exercise caffeine dose is potentially important; specifically, they hypothesized that high habitual caffeine users perhaps require a pre-exercise caffeine dose in excess of their habitual intake [126]. Further research is required to better understand whether this is indeed the case, especially in light of the recent findings by Lara et al. [131]. Here, participants undertook a double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized cross-over study, with subjects participating in two 20-day protocols, one with daily caffeine intake amounting to 3 mg/kg, the other with the consumption of placebo capsules. At regular intervals, the subjects undertook a maximally graded time-to-exhaustion cycle ergometer test, along with a 15-s maximal cycle ergometer sprint, with the exercise bout commencing 60 min following capsule ingestion. The authors found that, whilst caffeine remained ergogenic throughout the 20-day period, its ergogenic effects were attenuated. Such a finding suggests that partial habituation may occur. Conversely, Sabol et al. [132] reported that habitual caffeine use had no effect on the ergogenic effects of caffeine in medicine ball throw and vertical jump tests, with these latest conflicting studies further highlighting the need for additional studies in this area. Relevant studies in this area are outlined in Table 4.

Interesting study, thanks for sharing that.

My experience is based on non-scientific tests on myself. If I ramp down caffeine intake 3 to 4 weeks before a race I feel like I get a better hit out of the high mg Caffeine gels (150mg is high for me) Ramp down meaning 1-2 cups a day as opposed to 4-5.
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Re: When do you start ingesting caffeine in your race? [plant_based] [ In reply to ]
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plant_based wrote:
NordicSkier wrote:


I think reducing one's caffeine is a recipe for headaches and irritability.... not worth it.


I feel going to green tea and drinking as much of it as possible is a good way to cut down caffeine without going off of it completely.

My tried and true strategy has been to not change my regular dietary habits.
Why mess with your body during a taper?
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Re: When do you start ingesting caffeine in your race? [Passmore007] [ In reply to ]
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Ive also heard that caffeine can have an affect and also lead to cramp too...is that a myth or is there some truth in that ?
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Re: When do you start ingesting caffeine in your race? [SBRcanuck] [ In reply to ]
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i'm impressed with yous who drink coffee prior too. 1 8 oz cup of coffee for me equal 32 gallons of piss for 8 hours. im jelly.

i do low dose caff gels on the bike and run and preworkout 45 min before swim
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