Zwift racing requires a 1-to-3 minute effort at 4.5+ w/kg at the start for Bs. Gotta get on the train and then things settle down.

Yep....if you're not going full gas when the clock hits 0 at the start, you'll never even see the front group. Ride hard for 2:00 or so and it'll then settle down. But if you start out slow, your race just became a social ride.

If there's a climb in that stretch or at any point, better be pushing your w/kg there as well or you'll be dropped quick.

Lots of threads on Zwift racing. Do a search and you'll find some good tips and expectations.

I am a 58-year-old male cyclist with a FTP of 4.0. I am kind of a slow starter which doesn't make me the best Zwift racer but I don't really care because I just want to get some intensity during the winter. My experience is that generally I don't start fast enough to make the front group and we'll end up in a second chasing group which then slows down after about 10 minutes and settles into tempo pace with some attacks especially on the hills. I will sometimes make the break and I think I could make it more often if I tried harder.

Oftentimes I end up in a group that is mixed b&c writers with some occasional d riders. That seems to work out fine.

Your daughter may want to just try the c category and see how that works. Otherwise she may want to try one of the regular races rather than the tour races generally they will start The groups with a slight stagger but all of the different categories end up mixing together on the road which makes it easier to end up in a group.

I feel the Zwift Riding is an excellent addition to my winter training. I have been doing a 6:00 p.m. Eastern time ride called faster Masters which is a nice 90-minute tempo ride at a very nice steady pace and maybe one race of about an hour somewhere during the week that seems to be a good amount of intensity for me.

Hopefully your daughter will find a formula that works for her. Don't take it seriously, people cheat and sometimes ride like idiots it's just a way to get some training in.

yeah the FTP based racing categories make it seem like it's about FTP but it's only partially about FTP. For example, I can hang in and even animate A category races even though i have a solidly B category FTP. I can do that because I can push out about 8 w/kg for almost a minute, multiple times.

Maybe have your daughter try again with that in mind, being ready to go hard hard hard (a habit which will serve her well if she ever wants to try CX :))

This is key. I start revving up with about 5-7 seconds before the Start, and try to maintain that very high FTP for as long as I reasonably can (a lot of that time is out of the saddle trying to maintain it). Then I settle into usually a chase group.

I saw an explanation somewhere that said Swift actually averages your power for some certain amount of seconds like maybe 5 or 10 before the race starts so you need to have that average be nice and high and the 10 seconds before the gun goes off you can't just wait and wind up like you would in a normal race

great guide to racing https://www.cycle-smart.com/...-kevin-bouchard-hall

For the start i try and hit about roughly 7-8w/kg at 3-4 seconds to go, and hold about 1 minute usually, rarely more than 2 minutes. knowing the course, the hills, and that you should hit high power a few seconds before incline changes is helpful not to get dropped on climbs. and you will have to hold a power you are not comfortable with for a certain time period depending on the climb. zwift has taught me that triathlon ftp focused training does not necessarily make you a good all around cyclist. you have to have a good ftp, but also 5 and 1 minute power, and sprint 15 second power to win. zwiftpower.com is good for tracking all your efforts and following your power curves per time period.
also on zwiftinsider.com if you follow the blog author's series "how the race was lost" there is real good insight on knowing how effectively "race" a zwift race.

Also if you daughter is light, she has to push a lot more watts if the race is starting on a flat. IE if she weights 50 KG and is pushing 3 W/KG= 150 Watts, and I am 80, 90 or 100 KG, I am doing 240-300 Watts at that same ratio. We will ride at the same pace on the climbs, but it will be hard to keep up on the flats. ( and most races start on the flats) Personally, I wish Zwift would start making the way to a cat up system for races, and use the W/KG method for group rides.

Agreed on both the assessment and wish for better categorization for racing


The poster above gave you a pretty good response

The way they programmed the physics is such that there is a significant penalty for not being in a draft, so that a pack led by a sole puller of 75 kg pulling at 300 W will move quite a bit faster than a sole rider of 75 kg riding at 300 W, where the speed differential in game is much exaggerated compared to real life. As such you have everyone going full bore for the first minute.

So in reality, what happens is a few people with mass over 75 kg riding at 5.5 w/kg for the first minute or so (and their FTP in terms of w/kg is actually pretty close to 3.9 w/kg), and everyone else scrambles to latch on. As for me, an easy start (at 71 kg) is 50 seconds at 330 W; and a hard start is 1 min 50 sec at 340 W. There are also minute long efforts for ~390 W. All of these is to make sure that I can be in the front group. As the starts to all races with exception of Harrogate is flat, w/kg is largely irrelevant. I generally do pretty well in Zwift B-races, but even still, there are times when I feel I'm expending too much, just to hold onto my position.

As a former road racer who is above average at hiding in the pack (at cat-3 level), the in-game physics were frankly foreign. Whereas in real life, I could sit in a pack that moves at 25 mph while holding ~180-190 W, on Zwift I better up that to around 230-240 W. Even in the 1/2/3 races I participated, 210-220 W average (over rolling terrain) would allow me to finish with the group (averaging 26-27 mph). That'd be a pipe dream in Zwift A race.

Unfortunately, it is what it is. View it as good, high intensity training, but not much more. There are also women's only races, which may help things, solely by the virtue that there are very few female cyclist on Zwift with FTP greater than 250 W (and those who have such FTP are mostly pros or very good amateur, so they won't be doing B races), whereas it's dime a dozen for male cyclists.

I raced as a B (3.2-3.9) today cause I thought I would be too tired from morning run 2 hours earlier. held 4.3 and finished top 10. Would have placed top 9 in A. Perhaps some people fear A as it is unlimited. Regardless zwift should do policing if you go above your level. idea...Use soccer rules. If you are above the level for more than 2 minutes average get a warning. Do it again and you are out.

no this would hamstring all sense of racing, and turn it into a time trial at just below category limits. no attacking, no hills, no bridging gaps. no fun. the key to these races is to get real comfortable getting totally out of your comfort zone (way higher power than sweet spot intervals for tri folks) Race winners usually have the highest "variability index" meaning lots of high power, lots of rest, and not necessarily a high average power. Again i go back to zwiftpower.com the categories here are similar A-D and similar w/kg limits, but all your previous race data is factored in to determine your category. they take your 95% of your 3 best 20 min efforts and average that to determine your category (slight fudge factor built in) if you are racing a category lower than this, and going above limits for your 20 min best power, you are DQ'd. lots of other reasons to get DQ'd as well, i'll copy a pinned post below with explanations. basically zwiftpower filters out any questionable results (which ends up being probably 50% of racers) and i think most will agree these are the "true" results . i think in general people want zwift to go to a points based upgrade system, but zwiftpower works well for now.
Disqualification Tags - Meaning
𝐔𝐏𝐆 - Entering a category below the one listed on your ZwiftPower profile. Typically used if you see ZwiftPower category overrides wkg.

𝐖𝐊𝐆 - Over category limits. Might see this if rider has no ZP category assigned or does but is well over Cat limits. Also seen when ZP categories are not being used;

𝐙𝐏 - ZPower users not allowed in a particular category or finishing position. (Differs between different race organisers)

𝐇𝐑 - Heart Rate Monitor required in particular category or finishing position. (Differs between different race organisers)
(KISS for example will DQ anyone in Cat A and podiums in Cat B/C for HR and ZP)

𝐇𝐄𝐈𝐆𝐇𝐓 - Height doping.

𝐙𝐑𝐕𝐆 - Suspended rider.

𝗡𝗘𝗪 - Anyone under 500km total Distance and taking a podium.

𝐀𝐆𝐄 - Entered wrong category for age based race. Zwift does not provide ZP with a DOB so assumes your birthday is 1 January for racing purposes.

𝐍/𝐀 - race organiser does not want results published; typically used in social rides to discourage flyers.

𝐃𝐐 - usually applied by race organiser applied for a variety of reasons although most listed above. Could be for not following ride leaders instructions or otherwise being disruptive etc.

NE - Not Eligible [Used in National Championships when riders didn't meet eligibility rules]

ESS - Being too far ahead of beacon/leader at start of Expresso lap.

MAP - Not being properly transported to the World where event took place.

Why wasn't a rider disqualified when over cat limits?

Category Enforcement is taken from 95% of 20 mins which is toggled off by default so you can ignore the (default) average w/kg.

However, ZwiftPower allows a rider to go over cat limits by up to 0.2 w/kg but only if that rider entered their correct category.

The live tab will display a rider's assigned category in the leftmost column. Also clicking on a rider's height in the race results will reveal their category info at the start of the event.

Even if a rider is over cat limits by 0.2 w/kg they would only be DQ'd if their raw 20 min power was also over the limit.

Cat C example

Rider A produces a 95% of 20 mins of 3.39 w/kg AND 20 mins power of 205w - no DQ.

Rider B produces a 95% of 20 mins of 3.42 w/kg AND 20 mins power of 199w - no DQ.

Rider C produces a 95% of 20 mins of 3.41 AND 20 mins power of 201w - then DQ'd with WKG code.

Those over limits may or may not earn an upgrade for their next race.

It would be great if Zwift integrated that Zwift power to clean up the entire results listing of each race.

I think your daughters experience is pretty typical for almost everyone doing their first Zwift race.

Like everyone has said, revving the engine before the start and holding it for a minute or 2 is key, but there is definitely a bit of art to drafting in zwift that you need to learn. How to pay attention to the riders around you and make sure not to let gaps open is a lot different than on the road. It can happen really fast, quick break of concentration to have a drink, eyes off the screen for a couple seconds, next thing you realize your chasing to get back on and may not make it. And course knowledge is so key. If there’s a hill coming, you better be close to the front because guaranteed pack will go hard and if you’re on the wrong side of the split you’re chances of chasing back on are pretty slim.

And then of course there’s the sandbaggers. Pretty variable depending on the race and zwift has no way to control them. For now best thing is to go off zwiftpower and hope they don’t shred the race too much, and don’t blow yourself up trying to keep their pace. I think it’s actually a much bigger problem in C and D races than B.

+1

Zwift is big enough that they could have a USAC-style category leveling system. Depending on your USAC cat designation, you might get to start at a higher level (ex. a Cat III can start in the B group, not the Ds).

This would also account for the "diesel engine" folks that have a high FTP, but would race a lower category since theyu don't have the 2min. power to make the front group (kinda like how those who can't sprint tend to upgrade more slowly in USAC).

---

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)