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Re: New bikes [Proby] [ In reply to ]
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I would also look beyond the bike frame for speed gains....aero helmet, wheels, aerobars, tires, latex tubes, position, good-fitting trisuit etc....lots of speed to be gained there for far less than just a frame.
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Re: New bikes [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
I would also look beyond the bike frame for speed gains....aero helmet, wheels, aerobars, tires, latex tubes, position, good-fitting trisuit etc....lots of speed to be gained there for far less than just a frame.

Yes, lots of other areas to look at.

Aero Helmet, I have a giro Advantage
Wheels, definitely need to invest, only have a Hed 3 rear, no aero f/wheel
Aerobars, yep, have a good set
Tires and tubes, like the wheels, need to invest
Position, had a FIST fitting in 2014, maybe could redo that
Tri-suit, yes have a good fitting one.

So some gains to be had there,..
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Re: New bikes [Proby] [ In reply to ]
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Re: New bikes [TLT] [ In reply to ]
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TLT wrote:
N+1... always get the new bike!

I like your thinking....it's looking more likely I'll get a new bike, I've just sold a fair few shares at a good price, so have the money.

But my dilemma now is do I go for the aero road as first thought, or invest in a new/2nd hand Tri bike.
If the time savings for a new tri bike are really as much as Jimatbeyond suggested earlier in the thread, then it looks to be a no-brainer.

My next question therefore would be, what tri bike?

I've always liked Cervelo bikes, but not keen on the look of the new P5X. The P5 looks good, would that have some good gains over the Kestrel?
There is a QR CD01 for sale local to me, would that be a faster bike than the Kestrel?
Any other suggestions welcome.

Thanks for everyone's input so far.
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Re: New bikes [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
Maybe 2 minutes faster.

I have a 40km Time Trial Course pretty much on my doorstep

My TT bike, Cervelo P3X with 80mm rims, is 5% faster than my road bike, Canyon Ultimate CF SLX with 30mm rims - time difference just under 3 minutes
My TT bike is 8% faster than my 1999 Specialised S-Works Festina, which has 20mm rims - time difference just under 5 minutes

My Cervelo P3X is 20s slower than my previous 2014 Specialized Shiv, however, Shiv had a disc rear wheel.

In my view benefits are mainly in body position, and then wheels.

best tire width is 23mm front, 25mm rear. Wider tires may have lower rolling resistance, however, aero losses are significant above 20mph. Also aero losses using wide tires with narrow rims are very significant - Swiss Side reported 10w per wheel lost when tires was wider than rim
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Re: New bikes [Proby] [ In reply to ]
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Proby wrote:
TLT wrote:
N+1... always get the new bike!

I like your thinking....it's looking more likely I'll get a new bike, I've just sold a fair few shares at a good price, so have the money.

But my dilemma now is do I go for the aero road as first thought, or invest in a new/2nd hand Tri bike.
If the time savings for a new tri bike are really as much as Jimatbeyond suggested earlier in the thread, then it looks to be a no-brainer.

My next question therefore would be, what tri bike?

I've always liked Cervelo bikes, but not keen on the look of the new P5X. The P5 looks good, would that have some good gains over the Kestrel?
There is a QR CD01 for sale local to me, would that be a faster bike than the Kestrel?
Any other suggestions welcome.

Thanks for everyone's input so far.

I would get an older P2. Cost around $1000

Or an older P3C cost around $1500

Just about all the aero speed of the newer bikes.

Could have money left over for a newer road bike Or wheels for the tribike
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Re: New bikes [mattsurf] [ In reply to ]
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mattsurf wrote:
jimatbeyond wrote:
Maybe 2 minutes faster.


I have a 40km Time Trial Course pretty much on my doorstep

My TT bike, Cervelo P3X with 80mm rims, is 5% faster than my road bike, Canyon Ultimate CF SLX with 30mm rims - time difference just under 3 minutes
My TT bike is 8% faster than my 1999 Specialised S-Works Festina, which has 20mm rims - time difference just under 5 minutes

My Cervelo P3X is 20s slower than my previous 2014 Specialized Shiv, however, Shiv had a disc rear wheel.

In my view benefits are mainly in body position, and then wheels.

best tire width is 23mm front, 25mm rear. Wider tires may have lower rolling resistance, however, aero losses are significant above 20mph. Also aero losses using wide tires with narrow rims are very significant - Swiss Side reported 10w per wheel lost when tires was wider than rim

Thanks for reply, great info.
I need to look into the tires/tubes more, are tubeless quicker than tire/latex tubes, any research on that as yet?!
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Re: New bikes [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]
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[/quote]

I would get an older P2. Cost around $1000

Or an older P3C cost around $1500

Just about all the aero speed of the newer bikes.

Could have money left over for a newer road bike Or wheels for the tribike[/quote]


I must admit I’d love another P3C, the one I had was very nice. I upgraded, or so I thought, to the Kestrel Airfoil Pro, thinking it would be faster!





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Re: New bikes [Proby] [ In reply to ]
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Proby wrote:
Thanks for reply, great info.
I need to look into the tires/tubes more, are tubeless quicker than tire/latex tubes, any research on that as yet?!

According to bicycle rolling resistence https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/ Tubeless have slightly lower rolling resistance than tubes. However, I have seen too many races end with catastrophic tubeless blowouts, so I am sticking with tubes for the time being
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Re: New bikes [mattsurf] [ In reply to ]
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One thing that you might be forgetting is that bicyclerollingresistance tests clincher tires with a butyl rubber tube in them. That is why clincher tires test slower than tubeless.

If they had used a latex tube, clinchers should test the same as tubeless.
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Re: New bikes [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
One thing that you might be forgetting is that bicyclerollingresistance tests clincher tires with a butyl rubber tube in them. That is why clincher tires test slower than tubeless.

If they had used a latex tube, clinchers should test the same as tubeless.

That's interesting to note, thank you for that.
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Re: New bikes [Proby] [ In reply to ]
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Proby wrote:
I've always liked Cervelo bikes, but not keen on the look of the new P5X. The P5 looks good, would that have some good gains over the Kestrel?
The P5 is generally regarded as the fastest bike on the market and has been for 7 years. Cervelo markets that the P-X bikes are faster than the P5, but my gut sense is they are probably all about the same. Most likely, the P5 is a lot faster than the Kestrel.

My money-is-no-object bike would be one of the P-x bikes (not sure how they all differ). I think they look freakin' awesome.
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Re: New bikes [Proby] [ In reply to ]
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The best tubed and tubeless tires are the same as far as rolling resistance if you use latex tubes. Look at the Conti gp5000 (or the TL version for tubeless) and the Vittoria Corsa speed. They are your fastest choices. The Conti is maybe a little more flat resistant.

As far as bikes, it's hard to go wrong with the new crop of bikes. Pick what you like best. I ride a 2020 Felt IA advanced. The P5 disc is pretty damn nice imo. With quintana too, I'd go with any of the "PR" bikes, from the four to the six. They're all fast. My favorite wheels are the Roval CLX 64. I also really like the DT Swiss, Swissside and HED wheels. I would stay away from Zipp and Enve, not because they are bad wheels (they're really very good) but because I feel they are overpriced.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
Last edited by: RowToTri: Feb 19, 20 5:54
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Re: New bikes [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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exxxviii wrote:
Proby wrote:
I've always liked Cervelo bikes, but not keen on the look of the new P5X. The P5 looks good, would that have some good gains over the Kestrel?
The P5 is generally regarded as the fastest bike on the market and has been for 7 years. Cervelo markets that the P-X bikes are faster than the P5, but my gut sense is they are probably all about the same. Most likely, the P5 is a lot faster than the Kestrel.

My money-is-no-object bike would be one of the P-x bikes (not sure how they all differ). I think they look freakin' awesome.

I went to the P3X and P5 disc launch event here in Boulder and saw their presentation. Basically what I came away with is that the beam bike's main advantage was more storage, and the P3X came standard with a tiltable bar. The P5 disc was a little faster in the wind tunnel but with more traditional storage options. The standard bar on it is not tiltable but for a very high price you could buy the P3X bar for it instead.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
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Re: New bikes [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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exxxviii wrote:
Proby wrote:
I've always liked Cervelo bikes, but not keen on the look of the new P5X. The P5 looks good, would that have some good gains over the Kestrel?
The P5 is generally regarded as the fastest bike on the market and has been for 7 years. Cervelo markets that the P-X bikes are faster than the P5, but my gut sense is they are probably all about the same. Most likely, the P5 is a lot faster than the Kestrel.

My money-is-no-object bike would be one of the P-x bikes (not sure how they all differ). I think they look freakin' awesome.

I think I need to do some research on the new range of Cervelo's. My knowledge of them ends with the P3C, it seems they've come a long way since then!
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Re: New bikes [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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RowToTri wrote:
The best tubed and tubeless tires are the same as far as rolling resistance if you use latex tubes. Look at the Conti gp5000 (or the TL version for tubeless) and the Vittoria Corsa speed. They are your fastest choices. The Conti is maybe a little more flat resistant.

As far as bikes, it's hard to go wrong with the new crop of bikes. Pick what you like best. I ride a 2020 Felt IA advanced. The P5 disc is pretty damn nice imo. With quintana too, I'd go with any of the "PR" bikes, from the four to the six. They're all fast. My favorite wheels are the Roval CLX 64. I also really like the DT Swiss, Swissside and HED wheels. I would stay away from Zipp and Enve, not because they are bad wheels (they're really very good) but because I feel they are overpriced.


Lots of nice top-end bikes out there, as I said in a previous post, I’m way out of touch of how far these bikes have come. Exciting research to do.


As for wheels, yes I agree, Zipps are great, but well pricey. I did have a 2nd hand pair of early Zipp f/crest 404s, they were awesome wheels. I sold them on when I thought I’d not get back into cycling again. I so regret that now!


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Re: New bikes [Proby] [ In reply to ]
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$1,500 for an old P3???? Holy geeez No!!!!! If you are going with an older frame, you should be able to find an older (ie pre 2014) P3 or P2 for well under $700 and then build up with faster parts from there. I got an older P2 for under $300. I think the biggest limiter first those older
Frames is the potential issue with wider wheel/tire fitting.
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Re: New bikes [Proby] [ In reply to ]
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Proby wrote:
I think I need to do some research on the new range of Cervelo's. My knowledge of them ends with the P3C, it seems they've come a long way since then!
Yes... 2013 was a major inflection point for Cervelo and the marketplace. That was they year(ish) they introduced the current designs for the P2, P3, and P5. Those were all fastest in class, and their derivations remain at or near the top today.
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Re: New bikes [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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exxxviii wrote:
Proby wrote:
I think I need to do some research on the new range of Cervelo's. My knowledge of them ends with the P3C, it seems they've come a long way since then!
Yes... 2013 was a major inflection point for Cervelo and the marketplace. That was they year(ish) they introduced the current designs for the P2, P3, and P5. Those were all fastest in class, and their derivations remain at or near the top today.

I'm currently chatting with the seller of this bike:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/...801511?ul_noapp=true

Looks good, seller seems genuine, is happy to meet up, and is pretty local.
What do you think? Looks a good bike, aero wheels, DA groupset.
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Re: New bikes [Proby] [ In reply to ]
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I am not familiar with the UK bike market, but £2,000 for a never-ridden P3 with Dura Ace mechanical and Zipp 60 wheels seems like an incredible value.
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Re: New bikes [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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exxxviii wrote:
Most likely, the P5 is a lot faster than the Kestrel
.




So, after a few weeks of soul searching and research etc. I’m almost convinced to go for a 2nd hand Cervelo P3 or P5, instead of my original plan to go for an aero road bike
I still can’t get over how much suggested time savings I could possibly get over my old Kestrel Airfoil Pro SL.
Anyone else have thoughts on the aero gains, or anyone have real life experiences of upgrading to a more aero bike, and gaining speed in the process?

Cheers
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Re: New bikes [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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exxxviii wrote:
I am not familiar with the UK bike market, but £2,000 for a never-ridden P3 with Dura Ace mechanical and Zipp 60 wheels seems like an incredible value.

Just that these Zipp’s 60 wheels had a shit load of issues with the bearings and the hubs. If they were replaced for new ones they kept ‘grinding’ like there sand in them.

But still a great deal anyway ;-)

Jeroen

Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands
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