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The average amateur swimmer swims at about 3.2 kph for 10 km.
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According to a recent Facebook post from Marathon Swimmers Federation:
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How fast are marathon swimmers? The 57,000 results in the LongSwims database provide some insight.
At 10km, the average professional (FINA) marathon swimmer swims 4.9 kph, while the average amateur swims 3.2 kph. At 25km, the pros are swimming 4.6 kph and the amateurs 2.9 kph.
Both pros and amateurs swim 2% slower for every additional km of total distance.
Footnotes: these data are limited to swims between 2000 and 2019 in current-neutral water (generally, lakes and loop courses), with at least 10 swims per given route. Next, we'll look at sex differences in average swim speed. Stay tuned!

Now I finally get some concrete evidence that my swimming really sucks at my speed at the same distance is only about 2.6 kph, much slower than the average, despite a year of training, and looking at the gap between amateur and FINA level, I am completely hopeless to get to that competitive level. I think I will find another sport to do after completing my swimming plan next year.
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Re: The average amateur swimmer swims at about 3.2 kph for 10 km. [miklcct] [ In reply to ]
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10k+ swims are probably mostly done by amateurs who have a significant swimming background (highschool/college). Unlike a lot of marathons (or 70.3s) that have a significant population of bucket list one-and-done types dragging down the averages (ex. 6-8hr. runners for 42k).

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Re: The average amateur swimmer swims at about 3.2 kph for 10 km. [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Titanflexr wrote:
10k+ swims are probably mostly done by amateurs who have a significant swimming background (highschool/college). Unlike a lot of marathons (or 70.3s) that have a significant population of bucket list one-and-done types dragging down the averages (ex. 6-8hr. runners for 42k).


When I started to do marathon swimming I thought about swimming 10 km being the same as running a marathon which has a significant population as a bucket list item as well, but unfortunately I don't know anyone doing that apart from those regular long term swimmers who I can't catch up.
Last edited by: miklcct: Feb 9, 20 21:43
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Re: The average amateur swimmer swims at about 3.2 kph for 10 km. [miklcct] [ In reply to ]
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miklcct wrote:
Titanflexr wrote:
10k+ swims are probably mostly done by amateurs who have a significant swimming background (highschool/college). Unlike a lot of marathons (or 70.3s) that have a significant population of bucket list one-and-done types dragging down the averages (ex. 6-8hr. runners for 42k).


When I started to do marathon swimming I thought about swimming 10 km being the same as running a marathon which has a significant population as a bucket list item as well, but unfortunately I don't know anyone doing that apart from those regular long term swimmers who I can't catch up.

I am a long time running marathoner and triathlete. Anyone who can do an ironman can easily do a 10km swim. It's not really that hard if you put in 20km weeks in the lead up.

I fit right into the average marathon swimmer or maybe a bit faster. I did a lake crossing 12km in 3:33 so around 3.4 kph.

In any case those 10km swims are doable by any triathlete who can do an Olympic tri just like a running marathon is also doable if you do any Olympic tri. You do not need to be an ex college runner to do a run marathon and you do not need to be an ex college swimmer to swim 10km.

The only small delta in an open marathon is you can just walk at 4 kph and finish a marathon. I'd you have 12km left you can walk it out in 3 more hours.

In a swim race I'd you 3.3 km to go and bonk you are essentially done and will dnf. There is no walking option and most swim race organizers have intermediate cut off points that they pull you at I'd you are too slow because you may just die from low blood sugar and getting hypothermic because you are not working hard enough to stay warm
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Re: The average amateur swimmer swims at about 3.2 kph for 10 km. [miklcct] [ In reply to ]
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The average Ultraman triathlon swimmer is nowhere near those speeds for the 10K so don't feel so bad as we triathletes have to worry about our other sports as well.Mind you triathletes do hold back a bit because they have to get on a bike straight after the swim so there is that.The top open water guys are pure swimmers and they will always have an advantage and make things look easy.

As has been said,if you have a bit of a swimming background and put in the work then going under 3hrs for 10K isn't too difficult and a lot of triathletes could do it but they just don't want to.The top Ultraman times are a touch above 4kph and very few do that.
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Re: The average amateur swimmer swims at about 3.2 kph for 10 km. [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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This and the fact that swimming has a history of imposing qualifying times or restricting entry for distance events.... no body wants to be waiting around... most meets here won't let kids swim 800 or 1500 until they can hold under 1:40/100. At the rate my son is improving at his first ever 1500 will probably be 19XX.

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Re: The average amateur swimmer swims at about 3.2 kph for 10 km. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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A lot of the races will have cut offs and standards that thin the herd... like you said... you can walk a marathon... swimming is a little harder...

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Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
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Re: The average amateur swimmer swims at about 3.2 kph for 10 km. [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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Jordan won Ultraman on the swim
...

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2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
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Re: The average amateur swimmer swims at about 3.2 kph for 10 km. [realAB] [ In reply to ]
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realAB wrote:
Jordan won Ultraman on the swim
...


And you are using one of the fastest Ultraman swimmers as an example of what? The Hawaii swim favours pure swimmers because of the currents and Jordan took an hour or so off his run PB that day which surprised everyone.Very few have swum in the time frame that Jordan does.He is one of the outliers and history shows the winners of the first eight or so runnings of Ultraman Canada was won by the person who won the swim.I did it twice and that has been repeated again and again and again.

The difference now is,as more people move to Ultra-triathlons the more they are training for longer swims and the average swim pace is getting faster.Last year in Ultra520k Canada the slowest time was 4:24 with only three swimming over 4hrs.Back in my day that sort of field was unheard of as most were in the 4-6hr range.
Last edited by: ThailandUltras: Feb 10, 20 21:54
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Re: The average amateur swimmer swims at about 3.2 kph for 10 km. [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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ThailandUltras wrote:
realAB wrote:
Jordan won Ultraman on the swim
...


And you are using one of the fastest Ultraman swimmers as an example of what? The Hawaii swim favours pure swimmers because of the currents and Jordan took an hour or so off his run PB that day which surprised everyone.Very few have swum in the time frame that Jordan does.He is one of the outliers and history shows the winners of the first eight or so runnings of Ultraman Canada was won by the person who won the swim.I did it twice and that has been repeated again and again and again.

The difference now is,as more people move to Ultra-triathlons the more they are training for longer swims and the average swim pace is getting faster.Last year in Ultra520k Canada the slowest time was 4:24 with only three swimming over 4hrs.Back in my day that sort of field was unheard of as most were in the 4-6hr range.

I would suspect the compounding factor on ultraman related to the swim is both the 4 kph swimmer and 3 kph swimmer use the same energy to the 2.5 hrs point but the 4koh swimmer is on the bike at 2.5 hrs and the 3 kph swimmer hits the bike 50 min later. The slower swimmer is starting the bike later and has less energy for the bike and assuming they are identical fresh leg bikers the fast swimmer outsplits the slow swimmer on the bike....let's say he finishes day 1 an hour to 1.5 hrs earlier. This means this faster swimmer has 1.5 hrs of extra recovery for day 2. When you are only getting 15-17 hrs of recovery adding an extra 1.5 hrs of recovery is massive. So the fast swimmer starts day 2 more fresh and assuming they are identical athlete on the bike normally, the fast swimmer can now outsplit on day2 being more fresh. Leading to more recovery for day3.

I did a 70.3 this weekend on very very low bike mileage but massive swim fitness. I just cruises the swim to save my legs for the bike and had a massively strong bike due to no fatigue from the swim....or course I overbiked a bit but was able to recoup in the second half of the run and so a steady run for me. I am totally sold on having good swim fitness and not ending up in a hole at T1
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Re: The average amateur swimmer swims at about 3.2 kph for 10 km. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
ThailandUltras wrote:
realAB wrote:
Jordan won Ultraman on the swim
...


And you are using one of the fastest Ultraman swimmers as an example of what? The Hawaii swim favours pure swimmers because of the currents and Jordan took an hour or so off his run PB that day which surprised everyone.Very few have swum in the time frame that Jordan does.He is one of the outliers and history shows the winners of the first eight or so runnings of Ultraman Canada was won by the person who won the swim.I did it twice and that has been repeated again and again and again.

The difference now is,as more people move to Ultra-triathlons the more they are training for longer swims and the average swim pace is getting faster.Last year in Ultra520k Canada the slowest time was 4:24 with only three swimming over 4hrs.Back in my day that sort of field was unheard of as most were in the 4-6hr range.


I would suspect the compounding factor on ultraman related to the swim is both the 4 kph swimmer and 3 kph swimmer use the same energy to the 2.5 hrs point but the 4koh swimmer is on the bike at 2.5 hrs and the 3 kph swimmer hits the bike 50 min later. The slower swimmer is starting the bike later and has less energy for the bike and assuming they are identical fresh leg bikers the fast swimmer outsplits the slow swimmer on the bike....let's say he finishes day 1 an hour to 1.5 hrs earlier. This means this faster swimmer has 1.5 hrs of extra recovery for day 2. When you are only getting 15-17 hrs of recovery adding an extra 1.5 hrs of recovery is massive. So the fast swimmer starts day 2 more fresh and assuming they are identical athlete on the bike normally, the fast swimmer can now outsplit on day2 being more fresh. Leading to more recovery for day3.

I did a 70.3 this weekend on very very low bike mileage but massive swim fitness. I just cruises the swim to save my legs for the bike and had a massively strong bike due to no fatigue from the swim....or course I overbiked a bit but was able to recoup in the second half of the run and so a steady run for me. I am totally sold on having good swim fitness and not ending up in a hole at T1

Yep Dev the swim hurts a lot of peoples bike on day one.In 1999 legendary RAAM cyclist and former American best ultra cyclist Rick Kent got out of the water and was trashed.He rode very slowly (for him) that day only to come good on day two giving me a bike lesson by breaking the course record.

To give you some idea of the actual real world benefit of the swimmers,in 2005 our mate Gerard Charlton and myself were the race favourites with a young local guy Eugene saying in the media that his bike strength would be enough to reel in "the old guys".Well by the time Eugene got out of the water Gerard,who won the swim in 2:35'ish, was more than 70k away,over Richter Pass and halfway through the Ironman rollers on his way to Cawston while I was 10 minutes back rolling past the Nighthawk turnoff about to start the rollers.You can't come back from that sort of deficit.
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Re: The average amateur swimmer swims at about 3.2 kph for 10 km. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
ThailandUltras wrote:
realAB wrote:
Jordan won Ultraman on the swim
...


And you are using one of the fastest Ultraman swimmers as an example of what? The Hawaii swim favours pure swimmers because of the currents and Jordan took an hour or so off his run PB that day which surprised everyone.Very few have swum in the time frame that Jordan does.He is one of the outliers and history shows the winners of the first eight or so runnings of Ultraman Canada was won by the person who won the swim.I did it twice and that has been repeated again and again and again.

The difference now is,as more people move to Ultra-triathlons the more they are training for longer swims and the average swim pace is getting faster.Last year in Ultra520k Canada the slowest time was 4:24 with only three swimming over 4hrs.Back in my day that sort of field was unheard of as most were in the 4-6hr range.


I would suspect the compounding factor on ultraman related to the swim is both the 4 kph swimmer and 3 kph swimmer use the same energy to the 2.5 hrs point but the 4koh swimmer is on the bike at 2.5 hrs and the 3 kph swimmer hits the bike 50 min later. The slower swimmer is starting the bike later and has less energy for the bike and assuming they are identical fresh leg bikers the fast swimmer outsplits the slow swimmer on the bike....let's say he finishes day 1 an hour to 1.5 hrs earlier. This means this faster swimmer has 1.5 hrs of extra recovery for day 2. When you are only getting 15-17 hrs of recovery adding an extra 1.5 hrs of recovery is massive. So the fast swimmer starts day 2 more fresh and assuming they are identical athlete on the bike normally, the fast swimmer can now outsplit on day2 being more fresh. Leading to more recovery for day3.

I did a 70.3 this weekend on very very low bike mileage but massive swim fitness. I just cruises the swim to save my legs for the bike and had a massively strong bike due to no fatigue from the swim....or course I overbiked a bit but was able to recoup in the second half of the run and so a steady run for me. I am totally sold on having good swim fitness and not ending up in a hole at T1



Very, very interesting Dev!!! Some day this summer I'll have to do a little cycling again and see if my 60-70 K/wk of swimming helps me on the bike. When I was SBR-ing, I swam a good bit as in 20-30 K/wk but, as you know, big diff betw 25 K/wk and 65 K/wk. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: The average amateur swimmer swims at about 3.2 kph for 10 km. [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I do 10km swims fairly regularly (once every 3-4 months) in the pool and finish between 2:23 and 2:33. I usually swim 4000m a week with a focused training program.

I still don't think I could finish ultraman. AND...I never think any of those 10km swims are easy. After 8000M, I really start to feel the fatigue, and like others have said, there is no walk version of swimming.
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Re: The average amateur swimmer swims at about 3.2 kph for 10 km. [Darren325] [ In reply to ]
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Darren325 wrote:
I there is no walk version of swimming.

Yeah...I have just come off six months of reduced swimming due to shoulder issues, and my endurance is pretty sick. There's no bluffing your way through, it's just a slog.....
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Re: The average amateur swimmer swims at about 3.2 kph for 10 km. [Darren325] [ In reply to ]
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You wrote: I still don't think I could finish ultraman. AND...I never think any of those 10km swims are easy.

I'll be you could!


I'm the resident Hydrosloth here on ST, and am knower of most things involving slo-swimming. In 2017, I was silly enough to train for & participate in the Penitcton Ultra 520K.

In the swim training, my longest swims were just over 2:40. Pacing was right about 2:20/100 M. Aided a lot by fins, pull buoy, core shorts.

The day of the swim I did a 3:45, and it was never THAT hard to do. A lot of that had to do with a favourable current & nutri. breaks every 20 minutes for the first part and every 15 minutes after that.

I went on to have a fairly decent (under six hours) bike for the 145 K route.

& yes, I was an official finisher.

All to say that a moderate amount of training, sensible pacing, and adequate food can get you through one of these beasts.

Even a hydrosloth.

http://www.fitspeek.com the Fraser Valley's fitness, wellness, and endurance sports podcast
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Re: The average amateur swimmer swims at about 3.2 kph for 10 km. [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Now that Dubai 70.3 is over, I went back to a bit more swimming. Last three days 15,000 as I have swimming provincials and nationals in March-May time frame. My bike was fairly strong in the tri on very minimalistic intensity based trainer riding. In the month leadup to the race I had almost idential hours in each sport.....26 or so hours in each sport. Swim was maybe higher by triathlon standards and bike and run were lower, and I could feel the lack of miles a in the last 20km of the ride and those lack of bike miles hurt the run, but my general fitness was high so I was able to finish quite steady (actually ran the second 10km around 25 seconds faster per km than the first).

Once swim nationals are done I will start riding more again as the weather will be good and I can bike commute for most of my riding.

Dev
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