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Re: Headphones while riding? [triguy86] [ In reply to ]
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I can’t quote you any statistics about injury or death caused my riders wearing earbuds. Maybe they exist, maybe they don’t. There are such stats for drivers though. Because “safe” is a subjective term, no, I can’t state as fact that doing so is “unsafe”. I can state as fact that music distracts you. Again, it is the literal purpose of listening to it in the first instance. David’s point is a good one...no one can credibly argue that it is more safe to ride with them. It is a “negative” on the safety spectrum. Maybe not enough to cause accidents, injury or death, but definitely a negative.

Comparable to the Varia for me. I just bought one after reading and listening to others on this forum. I don’t know if that device will save me from injury or death. But, there is no doubt that device is a positive in the safety scale.
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Feb 3, 20 18:28
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Re: Headphones while riding? [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Agree. You know what’s a major positive on the safety scale???? Zwift!!
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Re: Headphones while riding? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck on point here! (As always)

Randy Christofferson(http://www.rcmioga.blogspot.com

Insert Doubt. Erase Hope. Crush Dreams.
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Re: Headphones while riding? [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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This, absolutely.


Fleck wrote:
I know, I know. Not smart.


People have to make up their own minds about this, but the answer for me is "No"

Two reasons:

1. Safety - I want to hear everything going on around me.

2. Riding for me is a bit of "zen" time - away from technology and other modern stuff. Just me - the bike, the road, and the elements. It never get's boring for me. I never need outside stimulation. I absolutely enjoy EVERY moment on the bike! That's rides when I'm alone or with one other person. High-Level Group Rides are a whole other thing - here the mind is always active - has to be! Completely engaged and immersed in what's going on around me.



"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack
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Re: Headphones while riding? [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
Yeah I’m struggling a bit with those arguing that the earbuds/music doesn’t distract them. If the music isn’t drawing your attention, then why are you listening to it???? That is literally the purpose of the music—it is targeted to your sense of hearing, which is an important sense to have when riding. Earbuds are designed to further enhance that listening experience ( and minimize the things that might minimize that listening experience ).

Technically, you are correct thst music does add a level of distraction. But it is also an over-simplification, as it assumes distraction to be binary and not a sliding scale.

The real world question is - is the distraction signficant enough to be a safety concern.

Do you stop and lose focus on everything else everytime you hear music? Are you able to have a conversation in a lounge or club where there is music playing in the backgrpund? Are you able to work with some music playing in the back?

So there were a few people who were too distracted by their music - so? Everything can be abused. There are cyclists who ride in an unsafe manner - does that reflect on all of us? There are people who listen to music too loudly in city apartments - does that mean music systems in apartments are a bad idea?

Plenty of people - myself included - find that it doesnt make any meaningful difference to our awareness of whats around us.

If you want to argue that every little distraction is unsafe, you can, i suppose. One can also wear elbow and knee pads when going road cycling, in case of a fall. Hell, one can wear a helmet when out in winter, in case of slipping on snow. Everyone has their own idea of when something is "safe enough". To me, that additional quanta of distraction posed by music is insignificant. YMMV.

IEMs are more on the immersive end. But ear buds let in a lot of ambient noise.


--
Those who are slower than me suck.
Those who are faster than me dope
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Re: Headphones while riding? [WannaB] [ In reply to ]
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I have the biking luxury of living where I can ride low traffic rural roads
And listen to podcast , New York Times , NPR, and take a call from mom
Or my work mates wondering where my proposal for project is .
At moderate volume or one ear out I feel just as aware of traffic .
Best endurance fitness audio books so far : Phil Gaiman , draft animals,
Dean Karnazes , Ultra marathon man . I Love to ride long with ear buds
Knowing likely one day 30 years from now I ll have a heart attack in the bath room
and never wear ear buds or ride again .

.
..
.
Gonna need 3 glow sticks.
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Re: Headphones while riding? [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
I can’t quote you any statistics about injury or death caused my riders wearing earbuds. Maybe they exist, maybe they don’t. There are such stats for drivers though. Because “safe” is a subjective term, no, I can’t state as fact that doing so is “unsafe”. I can state as fact that music distracts you. Again, it is the literal purpose of listening to it in the first instance. David’s point is a good one...no one can credibly argue that it is more safe to ride with them. It is a “negative” on the safety spectrum. Maybe not enough to cause accidents, injury or death, but definitely a negative.

Comparable to the Varia for me. I just bought one after reading and listening to others on this forum. I don’t know if that device will save me from injury or death. But, there is no doubt that device is a positive in the safety scale.

This, again, is a silly assertion when taken to its logical conclusion.

Looking at your Garmin, then, is now a negative distraction. Looking behind you is a negative. Looking to the side. Taking a drink of water. Eating. Changing clothes. Talking to a riding buddy. ALL of these things are "distracting" and take away attention.

You cannot credibly assert that one is more detrimental than the other in terms of distractions, ergo the only logical remedy is to simply not ride outside at all because the very nature of the activities involved with riding result in distraction.

As mentioned above, Zwift is the only apparent "safe" solution.
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Re: Headphones while riding? [guadzilla] [ In reply to ]
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No, I absolutely agree the distraction is a sliding scale. It may be minimal, but it’s real.

Actually the biggest injury I ever had riding indoors or out occurred on the trainer when it wasn’t latched tight and I fell over into an elliptical. Bruised my ribs, missed a race and was out for a couple weeks!! Lol....definitely a “funny”, stupid injury.
Last edited by: DFW_Tri: Feb 4, 20 4:50
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Re: Headphones while riding? [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
No, I absolutely agree the distraction is a sliding scale. It may be minimal, but it’s real.

Your Varia is going to distract you... :D
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Re: Headphones while riding? [rubik] [ In reply to ]
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Yes I totally agree that all those things are negative safety things. That doesn’t mean that music also isn’t negative.
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Re: Headphones while riding? [triguy86] [ In reply to ]
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triguy86 wrote:
Agree. You know what’s a major positive on the safety scale???? Zwift!!

Except when you come to do a (real) race and have to go round a corner, brake, make evasive maneuver or just cycle around/with other people.
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Re: Headphones while riding? [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
Yes I totally agree that all those things are negative safety things. That doesn’t mean that music also isn’t negative.

My point is, those things are simply part of riding. It's disingenuous to harp on listening to music while ignoring that talking to someone while riding is typically even more engrossing (language input AND output), and everyone does that without a second thought.
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Re: Headphones while riding? [rubik] [ In reply to ]
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Ahh agreed.... that is the difference as listening to music is NOT part of riding. You can take out the negative safety factor.
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Re: Headphones while riding? [tonto1] [ In reply to ]
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Easy there. I still ride with a group often. With cyclists. So my skills are fine.
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Re: Headphones while riding? [WannaB] [ In reply to ]
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WannaB wrote:
I know, I know. Not smart.

But I love my Lone Wolf road rides, and part of my enjoyment is just disappearing into my 17 yo self listening to tunes.

I keep it low, feel like I can hear oncoming traffic. But am starting to think I am tempting fate too much?

This has turned into a religious argument. Getting back to the original question, almost all roadies I know don't think it's tempting fate too much. Almost all mountain bikers I know don't think it's tempting fate too much. Almost all runners I know don't think it's tempting fate too much. If it were more readily available, I'll bet most swimmers would wear them too. Kayakers, hikers, skiers, motorcyclists. I even listen to music when flying a plane or skydiving (note - don't do both of those on the same flight unless someone can take the controls).

The most compelling argument against seems to be you can't hear traffic coming from behind. This is countered by (1) people saying they CAN hear the traffic since they only use on ear bud (the contrarian argument); (2) they can't hear traffic from behind anyway because of the wind noise (the inconsequential argument); (3) even if they did hear traffic coming from behind, what are they going to do about it (the fatalist argument).

So pick your side, pick your argument and enjoy your activity your way. Not everyone is going to agree with you but that's life.

---
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Re: Headphones while riding? [steve25] [ In reply to ]
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steve25 wrote:
J.Thompson wrote:
I ride with headphones (Jaybirds), but I only ride with one in, and only my right ear. With my roadside ear open, I can hear just fine.


^^^This

What if there is someone riding an ebike passing you on the right?
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Re: Headphones while riding? [rcmioga] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck on point here! (As always)


Thank you.

Just trying to be helpful


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Headphones while riding? [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
Ahh agreed.... that is the difference as listening to music is NOT part of riding. You can take out the negative safety factor.

It's like the whole point has gone over your head...
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Re: Headphones while riding? [rubik] [ In reply to ]
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I know the feeling.
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Re: Headphones while riding? [DFW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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DFW_Tri wrote:
I know the feeling.

Don't dwell on it too much. Distractions and all.
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