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Re: Minimum BF %? [el gato] [ In reply to ]
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Hello el gato and All,

"The trick is to keep losing weight until your friends and family ask you if you've been sick. then you know you're within 10 pounds. if they start whispering to each other, wondering if you've got cancer or aids, you're within 5. when they actually do an intervention, you're at race weight."

Slowman

Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: Minimum BF %? [fruit thief] [ In reply to ]
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fruit thief wrote:
My genuine question is because I find it surprising that such significant changes in body fat happen in a short time.

My personal experience is that changes in body fat% have been very slow. For example even with 1000kcal deficit per day, even a lean adult would take about a week for a 1% reduction in body fat.

So I'm curious how 6-8% body fat is something you could hold but only for a few days. I have no personal experience of single digit % body fat, and wondered if maybe there is a sort of rebound hunger/ calorie excess mechanism and maybe mrRabbit would explain. He certainly looks very lean on the race photo attached to his profile


I can gain 5-7 lbs inside of a week after a race without much thought about it. A little fat helps me recover, and a good chunk of that is just post race water weight too.

And I train at 9-10% leading up to the race, then cut 2-3% in a 4 week taper. I don't back off the milage much and even when tapering I'm putting in 12+ hours. Your personal experience didn't have much bearing on me it seems.

This really isn't that complicated and I feel like you're playing some unsuccessful gotcha game. You aren't getting anything however.

Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4
Last edited by: MrRabbit: Jan 22, 20 15:22
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Re: Minimum BF %? [MrRabbit] [ In reply to ]
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Back in my bodybuilding I had a few epic binges. Spent the day on a movie set and ate 10k+ cals. Absolutely repulsive, I know. But in one day I gained 18 pounds and visually I went from looking around 9%bf to 15%. Obviously 16-17pounds of it was water weight and lost 4lbs/day and by day 7 I was already below my previous number due to a 1000cal/day deficit.
Water weight can do some crazy things!
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Re: Minimum BF %? [MrRabbit] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for taking the time to explain, that is interesting to know.
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Re: Minimum BF %? [el gato] [ In reply to ]
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el gato wrote:
Is there a generally accepted consensus on what a minimum "healthy" body fat % is?

El gato, there is a book called Racing Weight by Matt Fitzgerald. It unpacks some data about the body composition of elite and non-elite athletes in triathlon and in other sports. Maybe you have already read it, but if not it might be of interest because it deals with a lot of the questions in your post.

FWIW as you have asked for n=1 experiences I believe I have 10% body fat but this is based on bioimpedence and caliper skin fold, not DXA. Im 6 feet tall, weigh 148 pounds. Train year round almost every day, mainly running, and see very little change in body comp month to month or year to year. Clearly pretty different to mrR's situation. Sorry if my Q caused any offence, not intended. Was just interested how it works for someone with that elite race-day body composition, and thanks for that explanation.
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Re: Minimum BF %? [fruit thief] [ In reply to ]
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No offense here. Just a misunderstanding. Seemed like you were accusing me of lying, but I don't think that's the case any longer. Glad I could help shed some light.

Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4
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Re: Minimum BF %? [fruit thief] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you very much. I was not aware of that book. I'll have to check it out.
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Re: Minimum BF %? [fruit thief] [ In reply to ]
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fruit thief wrote:
el gato wrote:
Is there a generally accepted consensus on what a minimum "healthy" body fat % is?
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Re: Minimum BF %? [HardlyTrying] [ In reply to ]
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HardlyTrying wrote:
fruit thief wrote:
el gato wrote:
Is there a generally accepted consensus on what a minimum "healthy" body fat % is?


It's funny, but ever since I went too low and hurt myself after obsessing about BF too much this is basically what I do.

I stopped counting calories. I stopped measuring BF%. And I barely ever look at a scale anymore.

I know when I feel strong, and it's actually a little heavier than most my height that are competing for OA spots at races. At 5'9 I'm faster at 155 than I am at 148, even on the track. I just get too weak eventually and lose that "bounce."

So racing at 152ish is my sweet spot. I try to keep more muscle in my upper body too because 1) I'm vain, and 2) I'm trying to swim faster this year. I may just race at 155, just going by feel now.

And not feeling guilty about dessert now and then anymore.

Too old to go pro but doing it anyway
http://instagram.com/tgarvey4
Last edited by: MrRabbit: Jan 23, 20 7:37
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Re: Minimum BF %? [fruit thief] [ In reply to ]
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OK, so I looked into this book on Amazon. The very first review I came across what this:

https://www.amazon.com/...&ASIN=1934030996

Admittedly this is just one review, and there were many other glowing reviews of the book, but if this review is accurate this is exactly what i'm hoping to avoid, i.e., claims that have been debunked or are just unproven, along with nonense like "you can lose weight without being in caloric deficit."

I'd love to hear your take on the book, and what you got out of it that helped you.
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Re: Minimum BF %? [el gato] [ In reply to ]
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I like pretty much all of Matt Fitzgerald's writing. The parts of Racing Weight which may be relevant are the charts showing data about body composition and other biometrics of elite runners, swimmers, cyclists and triathletes. Think you'd probably find some answer to the question about lower limits in there.

Also interesting were the food diaries of several pro athletes. They eat so clean, but actually seeing it mapped out over a day/week I found helpful.
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Re: Minimum BF %? [el gato] [ In reply to ]
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el gato wrote:
OK, so I looked into this book on Amazon. The very first review I came across what this:

https://www.amazon.com/...&ASIN=1934030996

Admittedly this is just one review, and there were many other glowing reviews of the book, but if this review is accurate this is exactly what i'm hoping to avoid, i.e., claims that have been debunked or are just unproven, along with nonense like "you can lose weight without being in caloric deficit."

I'd love to hear your take on the book, and what you got out of it that helped you.

That review is looking at the book to literally. Fitzgerald is suggesting that rather than forcing a calorie deficit, you change your mindset to the quality of food and using food at fuel and that will ultimately lead to the desired result without the shackles of a limited diet. I use to calorie count and always obsess over numbers but when I got the most effective results was when I look nutrients and what I need for recovery/workouts and I continued to make smarter and smarter choices. Rather than eating some rubbish post run because calories are calories, I would ensure I would eat something more nourishing and that in turn left me less hungry allowing me to naturally go into a calorie deficit.
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Re: Minimum BF %? [HardlyTrying] [ In reply to ]
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i love this!
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Re: Minimum BF %? [el gato] [ In reply to ]
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I'm pretty sure the message of that book is less "you can lose weight without being in a deficit" and more "if you focus on food quality, and eat nutritious, whole foods, you would have to go out of your way not to be in a slight deficit."
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Re: Minimum BF %? [el gato] [ In reply to ]
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el gato wrote:
Is there a generally accepted consensus on what a minimum "healthy" body fat % is?...Apolo Ohno being at 2% when they were in their competitive prime. So what's everyone's experience here?
.

Performance does not equal health.

Apollo Ohno was also going for gold medals and was willing to put his short term health at risk. If he did carry a 2% BF I can imagine it was for very long.
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Re: Minimum BF %? [907Tri] [ In reply to ]
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Fair enough. That's the gist of my question, as I'm looking to get down to a low yet sustainable and healthy weight before the final 12 week block of training - not something I an maintain for a week or two. Sounds like something in the 7-8% range is a decent target and then see how I feel from there.
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Re: Minimum BF %? [907Tri] [ In reply to ]
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907Tri wrote:
el gato wrote:
Is there a generally accepted consensus on what a minimum "healthy" body fat % is?...Apolo Ohno being at 2% when they were in their competitive prime. So what's everyone's experience here?
.

Performance does not equal health.

Apollo Ohno was also going for gold medals and was willing to put his short term health at risk. If he did carry a 2% BF I can imagine it was for very long.


I looked this info up. It was Apollo Ohno’s trainer who said he was 2% while boasting how he helped him get lean after putting on “excess body fat”. Something tells me he may be a bit biased. If you look at photos of him around the Olympics he is not even close to 2%. If you look at his finish line photos from the Ironman World Champs he was around 10% which should say something.
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Re: Minimum BF %? [HardlyTrying] [ In reply to ]
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HardlyTrying wrote:
fruit thief wrote:
el gato wrote:
Is there a generally accepted consensus on what a minimum "healthy" body fat % is?


The jiggle pyramid is the answer.

But the numbers:
Men should not notice jiggle.
Women should add + 5% to male numbers.

Non-athletes won't notice jiggle unless body fat exceeds 20%.

Non-professional athletes will not notice jiggle unless body fat exceeds 10%.

It is hard to keep body fat below 8%.

It might is not always hard to keep body fat below 10% (males) and 15% (females)- if you train a lot and avoid eating like a pig.
Last edited by: Velocibuddha: Jan 25, 20 12:45
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Re: Minimum BF %? [Velocibuddha] [ In reply to ]
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quite fat from 2%. add another 10 To Apolo:


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