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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
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Tri-Banter wrote:
Smaller area = lower drag
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I could see a case to be made for a larger body, especially in the middle regions, to allow air to flow more fluidly around the object. The belly fills in the gap between the chest and top tube. There are lots of aquatic mammals that aren't very thin and are quite round that are also efficiently hydrodynamic. Perhaps the same set of rules can apply to a larger human on a bike.

Remember when they strapped a Camelbak to Andy Schleck's chest to round him out a bit more for aerodynamics? A beer gut makes it harder to get an aggressive position, but it's probably more aero for any given position.



ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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mauricemaher wrote:
This is kind of fun (maybe not for you)

I think we should have a Cda betting pool, my pics:

236 at .305
226 at .297
216 at .280
206 at .272
196 at .260
186 at .252

Only changes being suit.

Maurice

I think those are some pretty darn good guesses.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Jim@EROsports wrote:
rruff wrote:


Can you say more about the aero sensor and what protocol you use?


I was thinking I needed to do a whole post/video about the sensor, the protocols, and even some aero basics for those who aren't aware. I assume folks know what CdA means, but I shouldn't. I'll get to work on that next week for sure.

I will do my best to chime in as well to help explain the protocol if it is needed. Protocol (and sensors that help you keep track of things) is critical!
Everything from tire pressures, air temperature, road surface condition, tire wear (new vs broken in), wind conditions, etc. Then there is the actual method to the madness - what are you actually doing during the road tests to reliably tease out CdA & Crr.

Jim is using one of our prototype units. Production units for fitters & coaches look closer to what is shown below.


Chris Morton, PhD
Associate Professor, Mechanical Engineering
co-Founder and inventor of AeroLab Tech
For updates see Instagram
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Jim@EROsports wrote:
mauricemaher wrote:
This is kind of fun (maybe not for you)

I think we should have a Cda betting pool, my pics:

236 at .305
226 at .297
216 at .280
206 at .272
196 at .260
186 at .252

Only changes being suit.

Maurice

I think those are some pretty darn good guesses.

Lol, I gave you bigger jumps when I think you might switch sizes of skin suit (216 and 196)

When you can turn a black suit light grey then you know it fits!

Maurice
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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mauricemaher wrote:
Lol, I gave you bigger jumps when I think you might switch sizes of skin suit (216 and 196)

When you can turn a black suit light grey then you know it fits!

Maurice

Yeah, that suit was definitely grey in some areas, but looking at the video, it was already perhaps a little loose around the shoulders. Maybe when I test next, I'll do it in both the XXL and XL.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting project Jim, will be checking in to see how things shape up. Hoping both your size and CdA come down handsomely for you! Question - aside from eliminating Doritos and all that scrumptious nacho cheese flavoring from your "nutrition plan", would you mind sharing what else you're doing to reach your optimal size?

Edit: sorry, looks like this was answered but I had not refreshed my browser earlier. Good luck!
Last edited by: tripolar: Jan 21, 20 15:34
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Jim@EROsports wrote:
Amnesia wrote:
Have not had a chance to watch just yet Jim but just wondering if you explain how you are managing to lose so much weight? Any secrets?? That amount of weight loss is pretty amazing, I would love to just drop 10-15 pounds let alone 40-50!!


Okay, so I know this would be a topic, and possibly a hot one. I've always known I could lose weight very quickly, and honestly used that as an excuse not to lose weight. "I can lose it whenever I want" would be my justification for "I'll start next week."

Though it's quite the fad at the moment, I stumbled upon intermittent fasting a few decades ago. It works well for me and, though many a dietitian will disapprove of me saying this (and they're right), I can be pretty extreme about it and lose 2-3 lbs per day. Now then, I do not condone this for anyone else. It's not the healthiest way to do it by any stretch of the imagination. When I say I'm extreme, I'm basically starving myself and I freely admit it. But, then again, 242 lbs is in no way a natural weight for me, so it's almost as if my body can't wait to shed it as soon as possible. In fact, I really felt like I needed to get this weight off before I experienced a real health problem. I don't know, it's as if my body was begging me to get it done once and for all. I'm not sure how else to explain that, but I felt an urgency to get healthy.

To be transparent with everyone, which I think is important as I do this, my poor diet has resulted in a history of both gout and kidney stones, neither of which are fun, but both completely avoidable...totally on me. I am giving myself breaks from IF to keep sane and, funny enough, though I've already lost 20 lbs, I won't be able to test again until next week, so I need to stop losing weight for now so I can get the drag number! Lol.

I think this could use further discussion, and I know there'll be many questions. I'll answer as much as possible with the time I have.

Thanks Jim, I for one would be keen to hear how you have done your IF, what ratios etc. I am keen to drop about 15 pounds prior to my next "A" race in 14 weeks, have friends (non athletes) use IF with success but not sure how easy it is to do when training for long course. I get hungry just thinking about food!
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Jim - interesting project, and thanks for sharing the journey. Just wondering if you will be tracking measurements as well as just weight to put some numbers around the "A"?
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [OneGoodLeg] [ In reply to ]
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OneGoodLeg wrote:

I used to ride w/ a guy who was tiny (actually pretty buff, just really short for a grown-ass dude). Not sure his road frame size, but guessing a 51, and a real compact default road position (he even rode his MTB w/ the stem flipped to negative rise so he could get the front end low enough to not be pulling wheelies all the time). I used to HATE trying to draft off that little fucker ~ i'm not even super tall (6-1 on a 58 frame) but I swear I could still see the pavement only a few feet ahead of him over the top of his head!

I'm 5'8'', reasonably trim and ride a 49cm frame, with a pretty aggressive position, people always complain about drafting me, due to lack of draft
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Only lose the weight that fixes your Cd!

Bluff body vs. streamlined body :)

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [Amnesia] [ In reply to ]
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Amnesia wrote:
Thanks Jim, I for one would be keen to hear how you have done your IF, what ratios etc. I am keen to drop about 15 pounds prior to my next "A" race in 14 weeks, have friends (non athletes) use IF with success but not sure how easy it is to do when training for long course. I get hungry just thinking about food!

My formula is pretty easy, but certainly not enough to sustain any kind of significant training load. What I'm doing is really closer to a full fast than IF as what I eat throughout the day is veggies and nuts that would, in total, fit into both my cupped hands. No matter what, I stop eating at 4-5pm, and won't eat again until 11am the next morning. I'm hungry only at night as long as I stay busy throughout the day. In fact, I wake up in the morning ready for a 90 minute workout, no problem. Over night, my body has burned fat to fill up my glucose stores (god knows I have enough to burn!) so I'm not hungry at all in the a.m.

What that doesn't allow for, however, is sufficient nutrients to recover from any workout. No way am I giving myself what I need to get stronger and, in fact, I'm likely weaker in my riding during this period. I'm okay with that... I'll build later if I can get rid of the fat now.

I do think a traditional 16/8 IF schedule can handle Ironman training as long as you're eating healthy and putting enough calories in during your 8 hour eating window. I find traditional IF quite easy to sustain, and could probably handle that as a lifestyle without difficulty. Give yourself a cheat day once a week or every other week, and it really just becomes routine. I would suspect you'll lose an initial chunk of weight right off the bat with IF, and then more over a longer period of time until your reach your body's desired weight.

I do drink a lot of water everyday. 120-150 Oz's at least not counting what I drink during a workout.

I'm no dietician. I would not recommend what I'm doing to anyone else, and I'd be remiss if I didn't warn folks that this is a rabbit hole you can go down real quick. Last week I caught myself wondering if I should eat one more piece of broccoli, or if that were perhaps too much. Silly. It becomes obsessive real quick as you find yourself weighing in 3-4 times per day. I think for some, there's a real danger of something like this becoming an eating disorder and getting out of hand. I see it in the world of elite cycling all the time. I'm doing this to get it done as quickly as possible, and to have fun with the aero aspect. In fact, for the next few days I will not be on the diet at all because I need to test again at my current weight, but won't have an opportunity until next week.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Jim@EROsports wrote:



I'm no dietician. Last week I caught myself wondering if I should eat one more piece of broccoli, or if that were perhaps too much.

I'm like that but with cheesecake. :D
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting project and will be fun to track

I’m just realizing that after several years seeing Jim this is the first time I’ve ever seen him on a bike!
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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I really enjoyed the video and good on you for getting rid of the weight. It's not quite the same, but I decided this year I would finally come back and test some things with you, but I want to lose about 6-8 "holiday pounds" I added this year. I have no idea whether it would make any difference or not, but it seemed that ideally one would want to test at or around race weight.

Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Jim, I have been on IF for over a year and a half now, maybe missed 3 days in the time. I usually do an 18/6, sometimes a couple more, very rarely a couple less. I lost all my easy weight in the first 3 months, but did not have near what you do, so good on you for going for it. I also have found that morning training is fine, no hunger, no bonk up to 2 hours at least. An often not hungry after workouts, so keep burning fat for hours after a little workout.

Anyway good luck, I think with your surplus, you will be in a good losing stage for quite awhile. So that should be motivating, and of course the real price will be that little Cda!!!
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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mauricemaher wrote:
This is kind of fun (maybe not for you)

I think we should have a Cda betting pool, my pics:

236 at .305
226 at .297
216 at .280
206 at .272
196 at .260
186 at .252

Only changes being suit.

Maurice

If this is at Jims expense he might as well throw in a fit session for the winner...
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
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I'll be interested to see how cda ends up relating to weight.
I didn't have super solid data, but did the best I could aerolabing my 10mile TTs, and mine seemed to show a step change in cda somewhere between 78 and 76kg, presumably as something a little bit significant changed regarding airflow attachment.
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like you're seeing good results already (arguably too good for your testing!)!

My gf's dad has been doing IF for about a year now as hes gotten more into running. I don't know his numbers, but hes probably lost close to 50 lbs in that time and still gets to enjoy his wine and occasional chocolate.

Maybe I missed it, but are you tracking your body composition, or just overall weight?

Strava
Last edited by: gmh39: Jan 24, 20 6:27
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Jim@EROsports wrote:
Now, next week I'll post another thread that will require Slowtwitch participation. I'm really looking forward to this one because the one comment I hear repeatedly is, "I'm not fast enough for aero to matter." Hogwash. So, together we're going to take a MOP mom who rides a road with aero bars, and see just how aero the ST collective can make her. Hopefully I'll have an update on my weight loss progress as well.

Hi Jim - any updates on the project? The first video was great, and I was looking forward to seeing Jim 2.0 getting slippery on the TT bike!

Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
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I've been needing to post an update. The weight loss has been easy, but unfortunately my overall health has be problematic for a little over a month now. In fact, it was during an aero test that I realized all was not well with my heart. I do have a long heart history, and in fact just today learned my case was recently presented at a conference of cardio-thoracic surgeons. Trust me, you never want to be that interesting to doctors!

For the moment, all is on hold until my health improves. I thought we had a handle on it, but it turns out not so much. All will be good eventually, so no worries. I'll hopefully post an update by the end of the month. I had hoped I could test every 10 lbs, but it looks like my first update test will be closer to 30 lbs of weight loss.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Health above all else! Episode 2 will be worth the wait, whenever that might be.

Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
https://www.strava.com/athletes/337152
https://vimeo.com/user11846099
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Yep. Being medically interesting sucks. Been there...

Good luck, Jim!
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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That you're posting about a meeting that cardio-thoracic surgeons had about you instead of posting about a procedure you already had is a good sign. Best wishes.
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Re: How does weight loss effect aerodynamics? [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Jim I think many slowtwitchers would be interested in your heart issues. As many of us are getting older and although it may get less views than Aero stuff it may be lifesaving for a select few.
Hope you get great treatment and get back on the bike soon.
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