Yes I have, and I've worked & reworked to get things juuuuuust right, only to discover the "first take" was the keeper

But I was mostly in punk bands, so those don't count

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

That's performance, not songwriting

I don't think she actually screamed it while she was writing it

But you know better, so I'll pre-emptively stand corrected

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

No I don't not in this context. At least not in the way I think you are saying. I do think she chose words to emphasize that he was a lying sack of shit, but I don't think she intended there to be any undercurrent of "and I want you dead" or "I wish you were dead", which is what I think you are saying. If that is not what you are saying, then perhaps we are saying the same thing just talking past one another. In fact I think it is the exact opposite. I think she wants him alive and at some point experiencing the sense of loss that she is over their relationship. She says that line 3 times, each time in the middle of the chorus, so I don't think she building that particular line up to some climax.

And please stop with the "you don't write songs so you have no clue what you are talking about" stuff, it makes you sound like Windy and posters from Canada in Trump threads. :)

And she's confused, hurt and frustrated that he is NOT experiencing that ... but maybe - if he hears the song - he will

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

bingo. or at least feel her nails as she scratches them down someone else's back!

But you aren't making a point. Who cares if it was the first version, 3rd version, or 15th version that you kept? At some point you picked ONE of them, and you did it for a reason.

That's what we are discussing, the reason, not the order that the lyrics were decided in. If it was the first choice, fine. If it sounded right, fine.....what sounded right about it?

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

I'm pretty sure you know better.

See how that works?

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Honestly, all I have wanted was some sort of intelligent discussion on the topic, which you have finally given me. All I had so far was "interchangeable words" which I strongly disagree with (or now Randmart's position, interchangeable, but one is better than the other, which is what Barry said, but it wouldn't be an argument if I didn't disagree with him).

I think your's is a fair interpretation. I still think the word "alive" gives a lot more power to the song than "lied" would have, and its the sense that he is out there living his life as if nothing had happened. "lied" does not, IMO, convey that message, and I think that it's a piece of the song that makes it more powerful and better.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Again, I'm convinced that you are either trolling, or just looking for an argument. So now you are going to be pedantic and obtuse?

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

I've lost track....is this the peloton girl thread?

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No fear. No envy. No meanness.

I don't read music, and don't know music theory like pedantic chords, Lydian Modes & shit, sorry

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Bah! You've been pissing me off, don't get cute with me now!

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

As I suspected, you and I were saying the same thing all along but talking past one another. I misunderstood your position to be that she deep down wished he were dead. And I agree, she choose a more powerful way to point out his lies.

To be clear (not trying to continue to argue, but just to express my point), I don't think she literally wants him dead. I don't even know that she wants him dead in a hyperbolic sense. I think she is expressing rage at him, and the phrase "alive" triggers an emotional response in the listener that is more powerful than saying that he lied. People lie all the time. Calling someone a liar isn't that strong of a phrase (though there are songs about it, and clearly it can be done if it's done well). Saying, "you'd hold me 'till you die, but you're still alive," paints the contrast between life and death, and she expresses anger over him being "alive" in that statement.

So the story being told is "I'm mad at you, you're a terrible person, and you need to hear it." The phrase, in my opinion, is a poetic way to subtly paint the picture, "I'm mad at you in a manner that I want to use strong words, like referencing your life and being angry at it," etc.

Its entirely possible that, like Randmart said, she wrote down a couple of ideas, and really liked that one because it just felt right. I'm trying to dig into why I think it feels right.


And again, its art. It can mean anything you want it to mean. I've written songs where people have asked, "what did you mean by this?" and I'd respond, "I actually meant to leave that part completely up to the interpretation of the listener."

Example of this off the top of my head: Something's in the Air Tonight, Phil Colins. So any have debated what the song is about, and he has confirmed that it isn't about anything.


Again, all of this is in my opinion. Your milage may vary. I like my interpretation as it helps me enjoy the song. ;)

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

I was listening to a podcast yesterday with ?uestlove and Rick Rubin where RR said that when they were working on License to Ill, he and Mike D would got out to clubs, hang out, and just chat. If one of them said or heard something they thought sounded fun, they wrote it down and said "Let's use this someplace later!!!" and just stitched them all together live in the studio

****

I always thought Toys in the Attic came out before Young Frankenstein, but Steven Tyler said he wrote the lyrics to "Walk This Way" on the wall of the studio after seeing the movie. It took a couple hours, though, so he must've worked & reworked them a bit

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

And speaking of the specificity and relatability of Country, I heard a George Jones cover (who knows who actually sang it first, but I believe Jones made it a hit) of Grand Tour, sung by Tony Jackson. I'd never heard the song, or of Jackson, but it blew me away. Take a listen and give me your take on the lyrics. It's a perfectly written song, but it's what's not being said that has it stuck in my head and asking questions.

Here's Jackson's version:

https://www.facebook.com/...os/2348495311913935/

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

The Beastie Boys book is pretty good. Apparently a lot of their lyrics came that way. They'd just walk down the street saying shit to each other, and then write down what they liked.

Ultimately they'd write a bunch of stuff down, and then vote on what stays and what goes. Then they'd decide who was going to say what. So, for example, Mike Ds lines were not necessarily written by Mike D. Etc.

I also love how the wrote Check Your Head. They pretty much just built a studio and screwed around for a year and recorded everything. Then one day they were like, "Lets see if any of this is good and make it into an album."

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Ouch!

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Brilliant writing (and very well performed).

This reminds me of He Stopped Loving Her Today. He sets up a story that is going in one direction, and then pulls the rug out from under you. I literally fought back tears in the 4th verse. He actually yanks it out twice. The song sounds like he's singing about a wife who had died. Then you realize his wife left him.....with his child.

Honestly, I thought that when he got to the nursery part that it was him mom who left when he was a baby, but the next line contradicts that. I think that would have made it an interesting twist.

Similarly, for a second I thought "You Oughta Know" might have been a message to the new girlfriend, but lines in teh song contradict that. I also think that would have been an interesting perspective.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485

Here's my take.

It's a damn near perfect song as country music goes. I get a bad feeling from it, though, like it's covering up something ominous with syrupy sweet sentimentality, and maybe generating sympathy for the devil. The tradition of Murder Ballads in country music points me in that direction.

What would cause a woman with an infant to up and leave what the singer presents as a tender, loving marriage? Considering the time and place and audience, I can't help but infer that there was some sort of abuse happening that caused her to leave abruptly, leaving all her things behind, and that the singer is glossing over the reality of their relationship and making himself out to be the victim. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I think it's the most plausible explanation. An alternative is that perhaps the baby isn't his, she's in love with another man, and he truly is the brokenhearted victim who was abandoned by a wife he loved dearly. But that doesn't lead one to write a sappy love song about her, or his heartache, with all the anger that would likely drown that out. Mrs sphere thinks it's just a meaningless sad song written to make the listener feel sadness for it's own sake. Maybe she's right and I'm overthinking it, but that's what makes it a perfect song, for me. There is no easy answer but the question can't be ignored; it's sitting there begging to be asked.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Now if you really want to get into twisted heartache songwriting, this one takes it to another level. I've been on a Waylon kick for a few months now and this is a hidden gem in his catalog. I don't know if it's compassion through brutal honesty, or a thinly disguised fuck off song, but either way...damn. I mean, Damn.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

There's only one perfect Country song [if - for whatever reason, no judgment - you've never heard it, listen all the way to the end]

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Yes, that is *the* perfect country song, no contest.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

I agree with your take, not hers.

Clearly something happened. She left EVERYTHING except the baby.

Kinda like my argument above. It seems oddly specific to mention that she took off with the baby and left absolutely everything behind if it was meant just to be a generic sappy song.

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-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485