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Nike's shoes seem fast per data - any other interpretations, or comments re: other shoes?
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NYT reports again on how fast Nike shoes are

https://www.nytimes.com/...&pgtype=Homepage


I'm impressed but I guess not too surprised by the findings/data, as it's consistent with the prior data.


Of equal interest to me is that data at the BOTTOM of the data pile (the slowest performs, such as Nike Vomero and Hoka Bondi 6). I'm sure a lot of people will wonder "why the heck do people buy those slow shoes (they were slow in the last dataset too, I think), but I do wonder if a more likely explanation is that anyone switching TO these super-cushiony shoes is already seeing physical limitations that prevent them from wearing a lightweight racing shoe. For example, my ankle arthritis pain far outweighs the advantages of going a little faster as a middling AG runner, meaning less likely to PR. ALthough it's true these padded shoes weigh a LOT.

I'm sure some sharp-eyed folks can tease out more potentially interesting things from their presented graphs.
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Re: Nike's shoes seem fast per data - any other interpretations, or comments re: other shoes? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I would love to try the fast Nike shoes. But they don't make anything in wide. So for my wide feet, the best options for light weight shoes are Altras and Hokas. Which apparently are slower.
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Re: Nike's shoes seem fast per data - any other interpretations, or comments re: other shoes? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I'm unhappy to report that my two IM Marathon PWs (Personal Worsts) have been run in Nike fast%'s. You're fake news, NYT.
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Re: Nike's shoes seem fast per data - any other interpretations, or comments re: other shoes? [davetallo] [ In reply to ]
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You could be an outlier and as they point out ....its for the majority of runners and they say at the end of the article that there are caveats. I don't think they deserve to be called fake news when they have analyzed run and your analysis is based on your single experience.

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"
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Re: Nike's shoes seem fast per data - any other interpretations, or comments re: other shoes? [davetallo] [ In reply to ]
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davetallo wrote:
I'm unhappy to report that my two IM Marathon PWs (Personal Worsts) have been run in Nike fast%'s. You're fake news, NYT.

They likely help with those who have good run form, not Ironman shuffle
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Re: Nike's shoes seem fast per data - any other interpretations, or comments re: other shoes? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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If you aren't running in Vaporflys, you racing with a self (or wallet) inflicted handicap. Just the reality of the situation.
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Re: Nike's shoes seem fast per data - any other interpretations, or comments re: other shoes? [Geek_fit] [ In reply to ]
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Have you tried the next%? In the past I could ONLY run in EE shoes from New Balance, but the next%'s actually are pretty wide and work for me. The 4% did not.
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Re: Nike's shoes seem fast per data - any other interpretations, or comments re: other shoes? [synthetic] [ In reply to ]
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synthetic wrote:
davetallo wrote:
I'm unhappy to report that my two IM Marathon PWs (Personal Worsts) have been run in Nike fast%'s. You're fake news, NYT.


They likely help with those who have good run form, not Ironman shuffle

Well, the study shows stronger advantage to "slow runners"

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo
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Re: Nike's shoes seem fast per data - any other interpretations, or comments re: other shoes? [MXGimp] [ In reply to ]
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I have not. I tried their wide pegasus 35 and that was JUUUST barely wide enough. So I didn't even try their standard shoe
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Re: Nike's shoes seem fast per data - any other interpretations, or comments re: other shoes? [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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hadukla wrote:

Well, the study shows stronger advantage to "slow runners"

Emphasis on running. 8min/mile is slow for an open marathon but good for an IM run
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Re: Nike's shoes seem fast per data - any other interpretations, or comments re: other shoes? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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I now have two pairs of Vaporflys. And some new PRs. These are better than the pods in the pool in Cocoon.
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Re: Nike's shoes seem fast per data - any other interpretations, or comments re: other shoes? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Have they done wind tunnel testing?

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
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Re: Nike's shoes seem fast per data - any other interpretations, or comments re: other shoes? [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]
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I am currently trying out the Nike offerings starting with the Zoom Fly 3 after running exclusively Saucony Fastwich

For me, the Nike are good on the road but not so good on the TM. Nike feel very cumbersome on the TM and are even loud. However, on the road, I do notice the advantage. You have to get the Nike up to speed to realize the potential of their high end shoes. I don't see any reason for anyone doing the IM shuffle to move to the Nike shoe for speed.

I am currently running Saucony Fastwich on the TM and Nike Zoom Fly 3 on road with the intention of running Next% next season
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Re: Nike's shoes seem fast per data - any other interpretations, or comments re: other shoes? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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wow, what was up with Newton Distance?

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Nike's shoes seem fast per data - any other interpretations, or comments re: other shoes? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Is the study made by a serious, independant (from any potential bias) source ?

Louis :-)
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Re: Nike's shoes seem fast per data - any other interpretations, or comments re: other shoes? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Just after the original Breaking 2 attempt I was in Rome the day of the Rome Marathon. Sitting in the hotel lobby an older guy walked up to me, he had clearly run the marathon, and he started talking to me. Within a very short time the subject turned to shoes. He was excited to try the Vapor Fly 4% out to give him the 4% advantage. He had run 4:50 in Rome. I told him “I’m not sure you would see the 4% or not. I am sure there are simple things in your form we could fix that would potentially give you more than 4% if your training is done correctly too”. He clearly didn’t like my answer.
What The NY Times article doesn’t show but actually states “There currently is no large scale randomly statistical study of marathons and shoes” paraphrase, is not correct. The data I collect at marathons all around the world confirms much of what this article states although the 41% figure is low. I also see and provide to the brands the massive impact that shoe is having on the entire running shoe market and on all the Nike shoes down draft.

At TRE (The Running Event) last week the youtubers agree the most exciting shoes were Saucony Endorphin line (The Endorphin Pro they say feels as good as the VP). Brooks and Asics talked to the some of the Youtubers about their carbon plate shoes but wouldn’t allow anyone to film them. Brooks is also creating a couple new shoes around the carbon shoe. Everyone also agreed they are very impressed with the Asics direction.

2020 is going to be a very interesting year

Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

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Re: Nike's shoes seem fast per data - any other interpretations, or comments re: other shoes? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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We've always known that some shoes were faster than others (thus the existence of racing flats and track spikes). The obvious angle has traditionally been (all else being equal) lighter=faster. Just like on bikes, weight has the advantage that it is very easy to measure; also, it works for everyone. Nike just really dug in on the science and looked at a wide range of factors. They have the R&D and $$$ to do this (note: it took them years) and it's paying dividends. The carbon plate is sexy, but the big gains seem to be in the foam. Midsoles are part spring, part damper (gel is an example of an insert that is virtually all damper). Nike got the balance right.

I was watching the finish camera at CIM, and for the top men and women it was just a wave of pink and green shoes. Almost every top finisher was in a pair of Nikes. Just like Scott bars and QR wetsuits, until the other brands catch up in running races it's tough to be competitive w/o these.

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
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Re: Nike's shoes seem fast per data - any other interpretations, or comments re: other shoes? [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Titanflexr wrote:
We've always known that some shoes were faster than others (thus the existence of racing flats and track spikes). The obvious angle has traditionally been (all else being equal) lighter=faster.

I think what these charts really indicate is that while all brands have a "fast" shoe, some brands are more marketing than fast and other brands are actually fast. And that's not even including the new Nike shoe, which is a huge outlier.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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