Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Ironman Arizona Running Shoe Analysis [Ryan_C] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ryan that’s a great story. I think your run performance is a combination of all those things. The conservative bike was a huge factor. The pain difference is a combination but the shoe has a great deal to do with it. It’s mostly the foam. The most resilient foam before Pbax was Boost from adidas. Pbax blows Boost away on that chart. In running shoe speak it’s called energy return. Again I’d expect those who ran in the Pegasus Turbo and the one guy in the Reebok shoes would report similar reductions in pain level. The best way I can explain it is vibration. You get a vibration in your legs when you run. Standard foam does very little to reduce it. With pbax the vibration is gone.

There has been lot’s of debate on the Vapor Fly Next % especially around unfair advantage. I think the overriding unfair advantage is your story. It doesn’t matter if you run 2:03 or 4:52, if you aren’t beat up, you aren’t beat up.

Dave Jewell
Free Run Speed

Quote Reply
Re: Ironman Arizona Running Shoe Analysis [dkennison] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
dkennison wrote:
Just a question - I'm trying to learn here - I got to running 9:25 ish miles for all of my long runs during the build to IM Cozumel. Most of those long runs were done on Sundays after a 80 -100 mile rides on Saturdays. 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 miles followed by 6-8 miles on Mondays.

They seemed fine and no pain in my legs or feet - just nice solid training.

At IM Coz my feet on the run were very sore and felt like someone had beat them with a rolling pin when I walked. They did not hurt when I ran - but my legs were not going to let me run a lot.

(one thing very different at the race: I was pouring water on myself all day on the bike and run and my feet were like prunes at the end of the race) - no water pouring like this in training.

I have been rotating 3 pair of Salming D5's. 60 years old - 168 Lbs.

I purchased a new pair of Hoka Carbon X before the race but did not want to try them (even for training) before the race. They feel strange but I have not really given them a chance only running 1/2 mile out of curiosity.

This new foam/plte/construction seems to be an option.

I'm beginning to plan for 2020 and would like to build a running plan with new shoes - any thoughts?

Thanks

The training aspects I'll leave to the more accomplished. But I can tell you the Next% would keep your feet a little more dry. The synth upper does help repel liquid. I did Haines City IM last year...humid death march, lots of water and ice on the body and soaked down to the Vaporfly knits. Feet were pruned up as you describe. This year at IM Chattanooga even hotter and tougher conditions....ice/ water/ and various other liquids drenched the body but no squish squish during the run from the shoes and at the end my feet were fairly dry.
Quote Reply
Re: [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I just PRed at 8 mile Turkey Trot this morning with 4%. Hoka makes good shoes but I don’t think they can match Nike now. I do train with Hokas though mainly with Rincon and Clifton. If Nike drops price a little bit on 4% and Next%, Hoka has no chance. I didn’t care much about Nike before but they are the best shoes in the market hands down.
Quote Reply
Re: Re: [s13tx] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think it's pretty safe to say they make the fastest shoe at the moment but even that would have a few caveats. 'Best'? How do you define that? Some people here can only run in very specific shoes so what would they say are the 'best' shoes.

'Hoka has no chance'. No chance at what? Beating them for speed? Making a profit? You yourself buy Hokas, I'm fairly sure that is good for their business so they should do ok.

I think the bigger challenge to Hokas bottom line (if that is what we're discussing) will be the Nike react infinity that they are bringing out in the spring. But who knows. Sometimes these things end up promoting similar products rather than eat their share and cake is bigger for both parties.

When I get back to racing I'll certainly consider the Nikes but at the moment I'm training and pretty happy in Hoka Clifton. Seems there is space in the market for both. I don't think many people were ever buying that many Hokas for pure speed, were they?
Quote Reply
Re: Re: [OddSlug] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
soon coming down the grape vine the next% to be on the walkers/shufflers
Quote Reply
Re: Ironman Arizona Running Shoe Analysis [SDJ] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It’s mostly the foam.


Many have gone on and on about the carbon fiber plate in the Vaporfly's when in fact it's the midsole foam that has the GREATER contribution to making them more efficient and hence better, than the carbon fiber plate.

The independent tests found that the Vaporfly's were making people about 3% more efficient with the foam making the greater contribution to that and the carbon fiber plate quite a bit less. The role of the plate was NOT acting as a "spring" as many think. What it does is stabilize the mid foot and all those tiny bones, and in particular allow the big-toe to push off from a really stable platform at toe-off!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Quote Reply
Re: Ironman Arizona Running Shoe Analysis [SDJ] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yes and that’s the difference between Pbax/react foam and Pbax/Carbon Plate. The reason why the Vapor Fly Next% is so “fast”, is the combination of the foam and plate as well as stack height. Take the plate away and the foam is still quite fast. It’s by far the best foam in running.


To us who are used to the firm solid ride of a traditional minimalist racing flat shoe, the Vaporfly's do seem a bit odd. I don't run anymore, but a friend who is a pretty serious triathlete, is a massive fan of the Vaporfly's. I ran around the parking lot at the Pool in Kona last year with them for a few minutes and did a few stride outs with them on. They do feel a bit strange - if, as I stated you were used to the firmer ride of classic racing flats. The VP's feel initially feel "mushy" to me.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Nov 28, 19 14:18
Quote Reply
Re: Ironman Arizona Running Shoe Analysis [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Fleck wrote:
It’s mostly the foam.


Many have gone on and on about the carbon fiber plate in the Vaporfly's when in fact it's the midsole foam that has the GREATER contribution to making them more efficient and hence better, than the carbon fiber plate.

The independent tests found that the Vaporfly's were making people about 3% more efficient with the foam making the greater contribution to that and the carbon fiber plate quite a bit less. The role of the plate was NOT acting as a "spring" as many think. What it does is stabilize the mid foot and all those tiny bones, and in particular allow the big-toe to push off from a really stable platform at toe-off!

People say it's the foam, which I don't down, but it's interesting to see the completely different takes on the design of the carbon plates from the different shoe companies as well.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.
Quote Reply

Prev Next