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Re: TRi bike handling [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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the wheelbase measurement on the chart looks off. It should be pretty close to FC + chainstay length (with a tiny reduction to account for the amount of BB drop)

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Re: TRi bike handling [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
the wheelbase measurement on the chart looks off. It should be pretty close to FC + chainstay length (with a tiny reduction to account for the amount of BB drop)

Simple trig, wheelbase should be ~10mm shorter than FC+RC. Looks right.
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Re: TRi bike handling [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
the wheelbase measurement on the chart looks off. It should be pretty close to FC + chainstay length (with a tiny reduction to account for the amount of BB drop)

Simple trig, wheelbase should be ~10mm shorter than FC+RC. Looks right.

yeah, I was just going off a quick compare to the P2 geo chart. The P2 is one is listing a WB that's too long, at least in the 54cm size.

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Re: TRi bike handling [TLT] [ In reply to ]
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TLT wrote:
Mudge wrote:


Take a look at http://yojimg.net/...bsd=622&tw=53.34

According to the geometry on the Felt website, your IA16 is on the high end. I would imagine that it must handle crosswinds pretty well, as long as you’re not too far over the front end.


How does the tyre width work out as 53.3mm? I was trying to work out what the PR5 was just out of interest and I got the seat tube angle and rake ok, but aren’t most tyres 23/25/28mm?

It doesn’t, that is just the default. All the values can be changed for your specific bike. The default rim diameter is wrong, too.
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Re: TRi bike handling [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
That isn't "why" though. I don't see anything unusual about its geometry.
He would have to answer since he is the design expert. All the numbers are similar, but the key is knowing significance. For example, here is a simple comparison table between a P3, IA, and Tarmac all of the same stated size. (The trail for the IA is calculated by the Bicycle Trail Calculator page referenced above.)

There is only a minor difference in head angle and rake between the three, yet they have radically different handling dynamics. And, check out the different chainstay lengths. The IA is more like the Tarmac there. An expert must interpret this for us.


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Re: TRi bike handling [Mudge] [ In reply to ]
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Mudge wrote:
TLT wrote:
Mudge wrote:


Take a look at http://yojimg.net/...bsd=622&tw=53.34

According to the geometry on the Felt website, your IA16 is on the high end. I would imagine that it must handle crosswinds pretty well, as long as you’re not too far over the front end.


How does the tyre width work out as 53.3mm? I was trying to work out what the PR5 was just out of interest and I got the seat tube angle and rake ok, but aren’t most tyres 23/25/28mm?


It doesn’t, that is just the default. All the values can be changed for your specific bike. The default rim diameter is wrong, too.


Ahh makes sense! I thought you had linked the calculator with the Felt IA measurements in it. The PR5 works out to 60 trail then, which now sounds low if the IA is 71.

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Re: TRi bike handling [TLT] [ In reply to ]
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TLT wrote:
Mudge wrote:
TLT wrote:
Mudge wrote:


Take a look at http://yojimg.net/...bsd=622&tw=53.34

According to the geometry on the Felt website, your IA16 is on the high end. I would imagine that it must handle crosswinds pretty well, as long as you’re not too far over the front end.


How does the tyre width work out as 53.3mm? I was trying to work out what the PR5 was just out of interest and I got the seat tube angle and rake ok, but aren’t most tyres 23/25/28mm?


It doesn’t, that is just the default. All the values can be changed for your specific bike. The default rim diameter is wrong, too.



Ahh makes sense! I thought you had linked the calculator with the Felt IA measurements in it. The PR5 works out to 60 trail then, which now sounds low if the IA is 71.

It’s not 71. Whoever posted that didn’t correct all the defaults. 63 in the 54 or 56 cm frames.
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Re: TRi bike handling [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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Very interesting points.
Your bike with 85 Degree SA puts your seat 6cm ahead of typical or Felt IA geometry.
68 degree Head tube versus 72 degrees lays your front axle about 6cm more forward than IA .
Do you like this ride ?

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Gonna need 3 glow sticks.
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Re: TRi bike handling [brider] [ In reply to ]
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 I mistakenly replied to rruff comments about your bike.
can you tell me more about your steep seat tube and flatter
steer tube bike . is it 650 wheels? Is it a custom bike ?

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Gonna need 3 glow sticks.
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Re: TRi bike handling [go.dog.go] [ In reply to ]
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go.dog.go wrote:
I mistakenly replied to rruff comments about your bike.
can you tell me more about your steep seat tube and flatter
steer tube bike . is it 650 wheels? Is it a custom bike ?


It is 650c, custom made for me (by me). Lots of drop... I'm not a long-course guy, never have been.
Check the gallery linked on this page: http://mjolnircycles.com/...ons/triathlon-bikes/

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Some are born to move the world to live their fantasies...

https://triomultisport.com/
http://www.mjolnircycles.com/
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Re: TRi bike handling [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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exxxviii wrote:
rruff wrote:
That isn't "why" though. I don't see anything unusual about its geometry.
He would have to answer since he is the design expert. All the numbers are similar, but the key is knowing significance. For example, here is a simple comparison table between a P3, IA, and Tarmac all of the same stated size. (The trail for the IA is calculated by the Bicycle Trail Calculator page referenced above.)

There is only a minor difference in head angle and rake between the three, yet they have radically different handling dynamics. And, check out the different chainstay lengths. The IA is more like the Tarmac there. An expert must interpret this for us.

A bit picky, but if you re-work the geometry calcs for the above table they must have used slightly different tyre sizes. Tyre height is needed for wheel radius, which is part of the trail calc. The trail for the Tarmac and Felt IA are both based on 28mm tyre height (if they round up to the whole number). The only way I get 62.4 for the P3 is if I use 30mm tyre height.

If we normalise that the difference is a little bit greater - with 28mm tyre height on the P3 the trail is 61.8mm.

As above there is (assumed) some rounding up on the Tarmac and Felt IA. Actual values for 28mm tyres are 57.6mm (Tarmac) and 62.8mm (IA).

So the actual difference in trail between the P3 and IA is more like 10mm with the same tyres. About the same difference if I use 23 or 25mm tyres.

Interestingly, if you also compare mechanical (or "normal") trail, the gap is slightly less. 55.1mm (Tarmac) vs 58.9mm (P3) vs 59.8 (IA), rounding to the decimal point.

Nerd out.
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Re: TRi bike handling [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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what are triathlon rules for seat position and handlebars relative to BB or wheels ?

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Gonna need 3 glow sticks.
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Re: TRi bike handling [go.dog.go] [ In reply to ]
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There aren't any.
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Re: TRi bike handling [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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There must be some rules that govern bike geometry and don t allow a rider to lay more forward or
on a flat course use a recumbent .

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Gonna need 3 glow sticks.
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Re: TRi bike handling [go.dog.go] [ In reply to ]
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What country will you be racing in?

I would go to the national federation's website and look at the rules.

Edit:
USAT Rules from here:
https://www.teamusa.org/...tive-Rules#Article_V


5.11 Bicycle Specifications. All bicycles and bicycle equipment used in USA Triathlon sanctioned events must conform to the specifications set forth in this Section. Any participant using a nonconforming bicycle or otherwise violating this Section shall be disqualified.

(a) Length cannot exceed two meters, and width cannot exceed 75 centimeters.

(b) The distance from the ground to the center of the chain wheel axle must measure at least 24 centimeters.

(c) A vertical line touching the front most point of the saddle may be no more than 5 centimeters in front of and no more than 15 centimeters behind a vertical line passing through the center of the chain wheel axle. The cyclist must not have the capability of adjusting the saddle beyond these limits during competition.

(d) The "front-to-center" distance, which is defined as the distance between a vertical line passing through the center of the chain wheel axle and a vertical line passing through the center of the front axle, must measure not less than 54 centimeters, except where the distance between the center of the chain wheel axle and the top of the saddle is less than 71 centimeters. In this case the front-to-center distance cannot be less than 50 centimeters. The "front-to-center" distance must measure not more than 65 centimeters, or seven eighths of the distance between the center of the chain wheel axle and the top of the saddle, whatever is greater. Applicability of the two foregoing exceptions is determined by measuring from a point on top of the saddle which is 14 centimeters behind the front most point of the saddle.

(e) There must be no protective shield, fairing, or other device on any part of the bicycle (including frame, wheels, handlebars, chain wheel, and accessories) which has the effect of reducing resistance. Aerodynamic carriers for food, water, and or cycling provisions may be attached to or be an integral part of the aero-handlebars if they meet the following guidelines:

(i) The carrier can pass from front to rear, through a rectangular loop with dimensions of 10 inches (25 cm) in width and 8 inches (20 cm) in height. (ii) The front of the carrier is behind the cyclist’s hands when the hands are placed in their customary position on the end of the aerobars, and (iii) the length of the carrier is no greater than 10 inches (25 cm) front to rear.
When the carrier is an integral part of the aerobar, this integrated unit must be able to pass through the rectangular loop defined in (i) above and the carrier portion of the unit must meet criteria (ii) and (iii). In the event that compliance with this section is in doubt with respect to any particular carrier or integrated unit, a member of USA Triathlon may submit the carrier or integrated unit to USA Triathlon for evaluation.

(f) No additional equipment, whether it is worn under the competitor's clothing, over the competitors clothing, or is otherwise attached to the athlete's body, which has the effect of reducing wind resistance is permitted. An exception is the use of safety helmets as described in Section 5.9. Such helmets may have the effect of reducing the wind resistance of the head only.

(g) Except as otherwise determined by the race director in the interest of safety, the front wheel may be of a different diameter than the rear wheel, but the front wheel must be of spoke construction. The rear wheel may be either spoke or solid construction. Wheel covers shall only be permitted on the rear wheel.

(h) No wheel may contain any mechanism which is capable of accelerating the wheel.

(i) Handlebars and stem must be fashioned to prevent any danger. All handlebar ends must be solidly plugged to lessen the possibility of injury.

(j) There must be one working brake on each of the two wheels.

(k) There must be a free-wheeling mechanism between the crank and the rear wheel that allows the bicycle to roll forward while the pedals remain stationary.

(l) All aspects of the bicycle must be safe to the user and to other participants in the event. Minimum safety standards include, but are not limited to, properly glued and sealed tires, tight headset and handlebars, and true wheels.
Last edited by: jaretj: Dec 1, 19 6:44
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