I've been interested in this as well... from my research it sounds like its mainly the weight reduction. I am sure there would be some performance benefit (maybe smoother pulley wheel bearings), but the bluetooth protocol is the same (so shifting speed is the same). The force RD also has the same dampening system as red.

Thanks! Yes exactly - based on what is available on Sram's website one could think they have the exact same technologies. The price difference is rather steep though so I was thinking there was more to it that just weight.

Has anyone else compared them? Or even reached out to Sram with this question?

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Weight

Red is lighter, so they charge more.

I forget the source (maybe on here?) but basically someone once said, "there's no real reason to ride Dura Ace or Red unless you're paid to ride a bike". I'm paraphrasing a bit but I'd have to agree, the value is in ultegra and force

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the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning

Yeah. DA and Red do use more expensive materials in order to drop a few grams, but those materials don't justify the price. Part of good marketing at the upper end of product lines is not pricing what your product is actually worth in terms of time, materials, and R&D...but charging what your customer is willing to pay. DA and Red is not for everyone...but clearly there is a market of people willing to drop the coin for it at the given asking price.

Classic ST. Lol

One thing I heard from a co-worker today that had to order a new red RD (11 speed) is that they use ceramic bearings on the pulley wheels... so I would assume this would carry over to the Red AXS RD too (although I am not sure if the Force one also has this).

Edit: Just looked on SRAM's website and it looks like the Red RD specifically says it has the ceramic pulley bearings, while Force RD doesn't indicate this (so I assume they aren't included).

Ceramic bearings in the jockey wheels mean almost nothing.

the 1X rear derailleur series are clutched. I don't think the regular are

...and, if you read the installation materials, actually ADD more frequent maintenance requirements :-/

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Not sure I understand the difference between a clutched and a regular derailleur?

Also are there different derailleur references depending on whether you go 1x or 2x?

Thanks

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A rear derailleur with a clutch adds extra tension to the chain so that it is less likely to come off the chainring.

Well, if the numbers posted on Bikeradar are correct, the weight difference is only 19 grams, about two thirds of an ounce. That's so close, you could say the difference isn't weight, it's the name printed on the component.

So, they do mean something?? ;)

It has to do with the pivot for the cage (the part of the derailleur that holds the two pulley wheels).

When the rear derailleur is viewed from the bike's drive side, the cage is constantly trying to swing clockwise because of a spring within the derailleur. This is how the chain stays tensioned.
But how strong should the spring be? If the spring is putting only weak tension on the chain, the drivetrain will enjoy low friction and very light-action shifting, but it will also be prone to the chain bouncing around. If the spring is putting very high tension on the chain, the chain will be more stable, but drivetrain friction increases and shift quality gets worse.

Clutched derailleurs attempt to solve the problem by damping chain slap. In addition to the spring, there's a friction plate. A clutch within the pivot causes the friction plate to engage whenever the derailleur swings counter-clockwise. So the cage can freely swing clockwise to wrap up loose chain (i.e. after shifting to a smaller cog), but the pivot has a lot of resistance when swinging counter-clockwise to let out chain (i.e. when shifting to a bigger cog).


Yes.

SRAM's 1x derailleurs use a very large big offset between the cage pivot and the jockey pulley to manage the gap between the jockey wheel and the cassette. Basically, when you shift to a bigger cog, the cage rotates counter-clockwise (since it's having to release chain) which causes the jockey wheel to move downward. This is all well and good for a 1x system, but it gets quirky in 2x: shifting between chainrings will also cause the cage to rotate, so front shifting ends up significantly affecting the behavior of the rear derailleur, which is obviously bad.

On SRAM's 2x derailleurs, the gap between jockey wheel and cogs is managed heavily by the angle of the derailleur's parallelogram. Shift to a bigger cog, and the parallelogram swings both inward and downward, lowering the jockey wheel. This behavior is unaffected by front shifting, so these derailleurs work well in 2x drivetrains.

Thanks much - very interesting and clear.

Regarding the differences: are we talking 1x setup with 11spd or with AXS? Because both AXS rear derailleurs are presented by Sram as being compatible with both 1x and 2x setups.

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I was saying that with respect to most of SRAM's lineup... I'd forgotten that AXS had just one offering for each component level.

"1x" derailleurs tend to be worse for 2x drivetrains than the other way around: if a "2x" rear derailleur manages to shift a cassette fine in a 2x system, it'll still shift that cassette fine when there's only one chainring. Since SRAM's road AXS offerings include a fairly narrow sprawl of cassette choices that are all officially compatible with the 2x setup, there was probably no reason to offer a 1x rear derailleur.
(Unlike in the case of Force 1 for example, where they offer a 10-42 cassette that's not intended to be used in a 2x11 Force drivetrain.)

I was just going through the same process. The Force group amongst some weight and material differences, is only available with a 47 as the largest chainring while Red was available with a 50. The gearing options scared me away. Also, if you add the quarq power meter, and need a new changing for any reason, you have to replace the whole crankset and powermeter. I really wanted to go wireless, but went with Shimano instead. More gearing and power options. Personally, the available gearing combination with a 47 front chainring were not to my liking.