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Dumb question about wheel prices.....wheel depths
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Alright. You've got the "tech" into a profile that you're going to go with in the 45 to 88mm range. Let's say. Companies publish and post these pictures. The profiles are not drastically different from a 50 to a 60 to an 88. Let's say you're going to offer a 40, a 60, an 88. Something like that.

The amount of "raw material" isn't drastically different between those, cost wise. The labor should be about the same.

So, why exactly are different depths of same profiles often up to 30, 40, 50% more costly? Across brands. It's way more obvious to me with the name brands also versus "chinabay" stuff. Their stuff is often a smaller % difference.

Is it supply and demand on the sizes and costing of the tooling spread evenly among the individual size versus the entire range? Meaning, does this indicate most people still buy pretty shallow depth wheels?

Or is it the chicken and the egg? More people were initially buying shallower wheels. So the prices became cheaper the shallower it was from that "momentum" in the market. And, we're still there today.

Whereas I betcha a beer that if you "reset" the market overnight and made all three depths from let's say a 30mm 60mm and 88mm all within $100 of each other for an entire wheelset............you'd see more folks buying 60's and 88's than you do today.

Just curious........it makes no sense to me. You don't pay 50% more for a size XL frameset or full bicycle versus a size S. And usually, you pay less for those once the sales hit and new models come out because that's what's left to liquidate.
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Re: Dumb question about wheel prices.....wheel depths [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Gotta recover those fixed costs too, not everything is variable.

Design, R&D, testing, etc all go into every wheel. If you're going to sell less, you need to charge more to recoup.

I don't think the market really demands that many 80mm+ wheels, you may have some bias coming from triathlon but roadies hardly ever rock those. I think you'd still see most folks in the 40-60mm ranges, which is why those deeper wheels command a premium
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Re: Dumb question about wheel prices.....wheel depths [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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This is purely a premium pricing strategy. Some wheel vendors charge the same prices for all depths 45/60/90. That is an example of economy pricing. Some vendors have minor differences that probably do align with manufacturing cost differences. Others charge huge pricing differences for the fastest wheels. It is just basic pricing 101.

Here's another angle to illustrate... an XL piece of clothing or XL frameset has no additional value other than it fits. However, a 90mm depth has more value than a 60mm, because it makes you faster. So, they are choosing to premium price that deeper wheel because you value the difference. The reasoning behind this might be that they may sell fewer units, but earn higher margin per unit (and maybe higher total margin overall). By contrast, the economy pricing model earns the same margin on all units, but they are anticipating higher unit sales on the deeper wheels than competitors to arrive at their overall total margin targets.
Last edited by: exxxviii: Nov 13, 19 6:24
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Re: Dumb question about wheel prices.....wheel depths [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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At PremierBike we charge the same price for all wheel depths.

http://www.premierbike.com

Dan Kennison

facebook: @triPremierBike
http://www.PremierBike.com
http://www.PositionOneSports.com
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Re: Dumb question about wheel prices.....wheel depths [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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Kinda what I figured. This came up because I've been looking at used wheels and have a good lead on some.

But, due to my internet search history, I've been bombarded with a bunch of advertisements from vendors. And in some cases, those got my clicks.

That's why I had asked. Since I almost always buy used, it hasn't ever been too much a concern and the difference seems to level out just a touch.

I was just gassed when looking at the differences on new stuff. One that came to mind was something like MBS........$900 for 60's, $1100 for 60/90's, and $1500 for 90's. So, the rear 90 is $200 more and the front 90 is $400 more.

You guy's points seem to play out pretty well. The front being more aero is more "gains" so the jump in price "seems" to be more.
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Re: Dumb question about wheel prices.....wheel depths [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Yep, HED does big time premium pricing on their 90mm depth wheels. They have the same MSRP for the 45mm and 60mm wheels, but then add a 55% premium to the price of their 90mm wheels. They probably do it because they know their 90mm wheels are very fast and people who want the speed will pay the premium.

Though, you cannot ignore the whole context... HED's 90mm wheel is still a ton cheaper than Zipp's or Enve's comparably performing wheels. So, while HED internally premium prices their 90mm relative to their other products, the product line is still economy priced compared to Zipp, Enve, and many others.
Last edited by: exxxviii: Nov 13, 19 6:41
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Re: Dumb question about wheel prices.....wheel depths [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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Reynolds prices all their rim depths the same.
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Re: Dumb question about wheel prices.....wheel depths [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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I don't set our prices. But - a couple things that are different:
It is true, there is more material and carbon is not cheap.

The deeper the wheel, the more skill you need to lay it up. Manipulating carbon (especially uni) into a compound curve and having it come out of the mold looking good with no thick/thin, stronger/weaker sections is a skill. It gets exponentially harder with deeper wheels. We don't paint wheels, and we don't segment the carbon around the circumference to make layup easier. It is harder and takes longer to do a V8 compared to a V4.

On our Jet 9, aside from just layup, there are additional steps in fabrication that add time to building that wheel.

For us, it is not ALL about "faster wheels can command a higher price". There are differences in making them.

Andy Tetmeyer (I work at HED)

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Re: Dumb question about wheel prices.....wheel depths [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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...also, not a dumb question at all. It deserves a knowledgeable response. hopefully I actually gave one.

Andy Tetmeyer (I work at HED)

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Re: Dumb question about wheel prices.....wheel depths [andy tetmeyer] [ In reply to ]
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andy tetmeyer wrote:
...also, not a dumb question at all. It deserves a knowledgeable response. hopefully I actually gave one.

We need a "like" or kudos button.

Perfect response. I never would have known.

When you say "segment" to make layup easier, is that what looks like little rectangle pieces molded together where it shows a vertical "stitch" on the wheels? Kind of like the older Zipp wheels? I'm not picking on Zipps, but some older wheels for sale used.....you can clearly see some kind of little rectangle pieces that make up the wheel. Just an example.
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Re: Dumb question about wheel prices.....wheel depths [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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thanks.
segments are smaller plies laid around the circumference of the wheel. That's much easier to lay up.
We lay up strips that are one piece around the entire circumference of the wheel, that also fold over and make a single ply out of the right and left sides as well. That's the compound curvature that I referred to. This is not to say that our rims are one monolithic blob of carbon. It's not a trade secret that the nose and tire bed (for example) need to be thicker than other parts of the rim.
However, nude is lighter than painted. One piece wraps where applicable are lighter (no overlap) and/or stronger than pie piece layup. There is more labor the deeper the wheel gets.

Andy Tetmeyer (I work at HED)

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Re: Dumb question about wheel prices.....wheel depths [andy tetmeyer] [ In reply to ]
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Pretty interesting! Good to see that there is some serious technical knowledge going into wheel production rather than consumers just being charged steadily increasing prices 'just because'... on that note, is there a particular reason why wheel prices are increasing from your view? It's something that both myself and riding partners have noticed, especially with the adoption of disc brakes
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Re: Dumb question about wheel prices.....wheel depths [jaredhartshorn] [ In reply to ]
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To reiterate, I don't set prices.
I can shed some light on this though. Using the Vanquish as an example: it's a new wheel. New shape, new layup. Disc brake freed us up on some of design. We wanted a wheel that was faster than the Jets and Stingers, tough enough to gravel and light enough to TT.
So that's drawing rims and cutting molds on the mill, confirming in the wind tunnel, testing on the bump machine/drop tower/road. There are development costs.
And then frankly, there is the market - where I am not involved. We do need to make a profit, we have a new and very fast wheel. That certainly figures into cost.
On the flip side, our Jets have actually gotten cheaper. They are fast wheels, but they have been around for a while. Whether you like it or not, demand is decreasing for rim brakes. On a wheel where we have already done the R&D for this iteration, and a soft(er) market, choices are made on price.

Andy Tetmeyer (I work at HED)

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Re: Dumb question about wheel prices.....wheel depths [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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Old thread, I know.

Interestingly it looks like the 60mm and 80mm Hed Vanquish sets are the same price.

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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