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Re: Kap is back? [scorpio516] [ In reply to ]
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scorpio516 wrote:

So as to what the NFL would have gotten out of the workout? An effective way to win any future suits Kaepernick could bring. Remember that he has never sued the NFL, the NFLPA did and settled in arbitration.

Agreed. I said the same thing upthread.

I've been following this issue for all of 90 minutes.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
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“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Kap is back? [ike] [ In reply to ]
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ike wrote:
mck414 wrote:
The problem with Kap's grandstanding is he's sending a mixed message. On one hand he says he wants nothing more than to play in the NFL. Then on the other hand, through his actions, he's saying he won't play by the NFL's rules for re-admittance.

Politics aside, is there any other job out there where the applicant gets to dictate the terms of the interview or hiring process? Or purposefully do things to intentionally aggravate the future employer? No, and if there are, NFL QB is not one of them.


Star athletes often dictate some of the terms. They are not akin to Sphere’s application to PA school. Often, the stars have their own fan base, which they may bring to a new team. And, they may have unique talents that some team really needs. Kaep could successfully dictate at least some terms, if he were better or more popular. But, he is not LeBron and likely is overplaying his hand.

Exactly this! Kap is no longer at the level, in the league's or teams' eyes anyway, that he can get away with setting his terms. Which is why his behavior is puzzling to me. Which is why I said earlier, his words and actions do not align. I suspect his team of advisers may be nothing more than a group of yes-men, constantly telling him he's in the right and they're in the wrong. I don't get the sense he's being advised to swallow his pride a little, follow the set forth rules and just show case his skill. At this point everyone knows what his back story is, and what his stances are. What no one truly knows is what his skill level is. He can say he can throw a football over them mountains all he wants, doesn't make it true.

And for all those who argue the set forth rules for Kap may not have been the same as everyone, I can only counter that Kap's behavior with regard to the league hasn't been the same as everyone else either. I would not expect equal treatment at this point.

I'd really like to know what was in that collusion agreement though, I kinda believe this whole workout/interview fiasco was bred from that agreement. Or my tinfoil hat is too tight.

--------------------------
The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody
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Re: Kap is back? [Perseus] [ In reply to ]
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Perseus wrote:
Slowman wrote:
Perseus wrote:
Kaep already accepted a settlement for the alleged blackballing. Regardless of everything else, Kaep's antics outshine his talent and after yesterday he won't play another down in the NFL.


nevertheless the blackballing continues. as for his antics, i'll stipulate alongside you to things he did do that you and i agree he shouldn't have done; and i hope you and i can likewise stipulate the good things he has done that are well above and beyond what the average player does.


I do not agree that Kaep is being blackballed. I simply think he's a distraction teams don't want to deal with. I would agree his charitable work is admirable.

What value would Kap bring to a team except for a potion as a a backup? There has never been a QB that left the NFL for 3 years and came back to a starting job. Any GM or owner would be nuts to risk fan outrage for such little ROI. And the T-shirt? I am sure that helped put the final nail in his football coffin.

"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."
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Re: Kap is back? [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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mck414 wrote:
Exactly this! Kap is no longer at the level, in the league's or teams' eyes anyway, that he can get away with setting his terms.

Kap is an elite talent (scouts' words) who ipso facto just set his own terms on an unsolicited and unprecedented league-wide one-athlete workout session. That said, after colluding to blackball him for the last three years, the league's and teams' "eyes" are probably a poor measuring device to determine his true worth.

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Which is why his behavior is puzzling to me. Which is why I said earlier, his words and actions do not align.

What is puzzling about his behavior? He's been very consistent with his stance, and luckily he apparently had enough "fuck you" money to say fuck you to the league. He continues to say it.

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I suspect his team of advisers may be nothing more than a group of yes-men, constantly telling him he's in the right and they're in the wrong.

So the league, which colluded to blackball him, comes out of nowhere with a dog and pony show and you expect Kap to do what now?

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I don't get the sense he's being advised to swallow his pride a little, follow the set forth rules and just showcase his skill. At this point everyone knows what his back story is, and what his stances are. What no one truly knows is what his skill level is. He can say he can throw a football over them mountains all he wants, doesn't make it true.

I'm with you here a little bit, like, if he wanted to play he could have done the workout differently, but having said that it was a fake audition and actually he *did* showcase his skill, at the high school, and apparently scouts are saying he has an "elite" arm, whatever that means. I'm thinking enough people were there that the word will spread and if anyone actually wants him they can invite him to one of the normal Tuesday workouts like they do for thousands of other athletes.

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And for all those who argue the set forth rules for Kap may not have been the same as everyone, I can only counter that Kap's behavior with regard to the league hasn't been the same as everyone else either. I would not expect equal treatment at this point.

I'm not understanding this whataboutism

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I'd really like to know what was in that collusion agreement though, I kinda believe this whole workout/interview fiasco was bred from that agreement. Or my tinfoil hat is too tight.

this is the correct question

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Kap is back? [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Eric,

"the league's and teams' "eyes" are probably a poor measuring device to determine his true worth."

You cannot really believe that. It's the teams, and perhaps to a lesser extent the league, who determine Kap's worth as a player. The baggage that Kap brings, plays into that calculus, the teams use in determining his worth as a player.




As to the collusion agreement between the league and NFLPA, we don't know any such collusion was admitted, do we? Honest question here, I don't recall even a summary of the agreement, only that the agreement is private, sealed, or whatever the appropriate legal term is. And that a settlement was reached, which I agree stinks of an admission on the league's part.

--------------------------
The secret of a long life is you try not to shorten it.
-Nobody
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Re: Kap is back? [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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mck414 wrote:
Eric,

"the league's and teams' "eyes" are probably a poor measuring device to determine his true worth."

You cannot really believe that. It's the teams, and perhaps to a lesser extent the league, who determine Kap's worth as a player. The baggage that Kap brings, plays into that calculus, the teams use in determining his worth as a player.

As to the collusion agreement between the league and NFLPA, we don't know any such collusion was admitted, do we? Honest question here, I don't recall even a summary of the agreement, only that the agreement is private, sealed, or whatever the appropriate legal term is. And that a settlement was reached, which I agree stinks of an admission on the league's part.

Like I said to someone else, I've been following this issue for all of 90min, but do you really think Kap should let "the league" determine his worth after blackballing him, or that the general public should accept their assessment of his worth at face value?

Also, if "the league" or any number of teams more than one determine his worth, that sounds like it could be a labor violation to me at least or illegal at worse.

Further, I'd argue that Kap doesn't in fact "bring baggage"... I won't concede that point. It sounds like a PR talking point. There are plenty of other worse offenders in the league that are still playing now.

At some point he's either going to age out or some GM desperate for wins or a QB will hire him, but currently he's an "elite" level arm without a team in a league full of sub-elite QBs. Apparently.

Finally, who cares? He's a grown-ass man doing grown-ass man stuff. I'd take a social justice Kap on my team over a kow-towing LeBron any day.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Kap is back? [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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Here's a fairly useful segment of a Q&A on the how, when, why of Saturday's planned event, from ESPN:

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Why is this workout happening now?

Sources familiar with the league's thinking say there are two reasons: First, a little over a month ago, Kaepernick's representatives put out a lengthy statement to address what they described as "false narratives" surrounding Kaepernick's situation and to assert that he still wanted to play.

Second, several teams have been in contact with the league office to ask about Kaepernick's status, and the league has grown tired of telling teams they're free to find out for themselves. Potentially interested teams haven't wanted to bring in Kaepernick for visits or workouts the way they routinely do on Tuesdays during the season, so the league is organizing Saturday's workout so that interested teams can check him out en masse.

Is this a part of his settlement with the league on the collusion grievance?


Multiple sources say no, that the league is not required to hold this workout as part of any settlement.

How long has the NFL been planning this?

Unclear. One source Wednesday said the league had been in conversation with Kaepernick and his representatives about a workout like this over the past few months. But another source said there had been no contact between the league and Kaepernick's reps in more than a year.

Did Kaepernick know this was coming?

No, he did not. The NFL reached out to Kaepernick's agent, Nalley, around 10 a.m. ET Tuesday and told Nalley the league would be circulating a memo to all 32 teams at 4 p.m. ET announcing the plans for the workout. That was the first Kaepernick heard of this, and he and Nalley responded with a few requests, most of which were denied.

They asked if it could be held on a Tuesday, when most in-season player workouts are conducted. They asked if the workout could be pushed back later than this week to allow Kaepernick more time to prepare. The league said no to both of those requests and told Kaepernick it would provide him with a list of the team personnel who were planning to attend the workout. (ESPN's Adam Schefter reported Wednesday evening that the NFL has reversed its decision to provide the list.)


Kaepernick tweeted Tuesday that he looked forward to seeing head coaches and general managers at the workout -- an indication of his own skepticism about how seriously teams would take the whole thing.

So why is it on a Saturday, then?

The NFL wanted to have the workout at an NFL team facility, and it didn't think a team would want to open its facility to the other 31 teams on a Tuesday or any other day when it would be going through its normal game preparation. The league determined that it could use the Falcons' facility on Saturday afternoon, after the Falcons had left for their Sunday game in Carolina.

What are the chances he signs and plays this season?

Pretty remote, and this is an important thing for people to understand. The idea that a team would sign Kaepernick now and expect him to start games this season is incredibly far-fetched.


First of all, as we've mentioned, he hasn't played in three years. Second, you just don't see teams pick up quarterbacks during the season for the purpose of starting games for them right away. Yes, Jimmy Garoppolo started the final five games of the 2017 season for the 49ers after they picked him up in a late-October trade, but that was neither the Niners' plan nor their reason for acquiring him. The Niners got Garoppolo to start for them in 2018 and beyond. The main reason he started so soon was because C.J. Beathard got hurt and the Niners were well out of the playoff race.

You don't generally see a team pick up a quarterback from outside the organization, teach him the offensive system in a week or two and ask him to step in and save the season. Translation: If you're a fan of the Bears imagining Kaepernick replacing Mitchell Trubisky by Thanksgiving and leading you to the playoffs, you're in a fantasy world.

Any team looking at Kaepernick this weekend would be doing so with the thought of adding him to its overall quarterback picture for next season and beyond. It's possible a team could sign him and get him into its building to prepare him for a 2020 role. It's also possible no team signs him until the offseason. And, as the past three years have shown us, it's obviously possible no one signs him at all.

What would it cost to sign him?

It couldn't possibly be much at this point. During that 2017 offseason, sources said Kaepernick was looking for a low-end starter or high-end backup salary, which would have been justified given where he was in his career at that point.

Of course, that information turned out to be irrelevant, since no team ever actually found out what he was looking for because they didn't ask. At this point, it's hard to imagine he could ask for much more than a veterans minimum deal with a bunch of incentives tied to playing time and performance. Teams that go to the workout might have a chance to ask Kaepernick in person, since part of the plan is for him to submit to an interview, a video of which will then be circulated to all 32 teams.



Mutual distrust going into the weekend. No surprise Kap had alternate arrangements lined up. I doubt he had any intention of showcasing at the Falcons facility. The italicized portions raise some serious doubts about the NFL's motives. They scheduled it to appease inquiring owners? That suggests a ton of interest, and yet, no team wanted to host him at their facility?

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
Last edited by: sphere: Nov 18, 19 13:42
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Re: Kap is back? [scorpio516] [ In reply to ]
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scorpio516 wrote:
ericMPro wrote:
Let’s wait and see what Jay-Z says...


He was “disappointed with Colin’s actions and believes he turned a legitimate workout into a publicity stunt.”

You alls haven't looked over the waiver yet? https://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2019/11/nov-16-workout-release-and-waiver.pdf


According to Florio, who is a lawyer too:
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If I were representing Kaepernick, and if the goal were to have a genuine workout aimed at enhancing his chances of being signed by an NFL team, I would have asked immediately for the document to be revised to specifically clarify that any and all potential employment rights would be preserved. If the league had refused, I wouldn’t have signed it, because the language leaves the door sufficiently ajar for a subsequent defense to a collusion/retaliation case that signing the waiver extinguished the claims. Failure to obtain that clarification could be characterized as professional malpractice, especially in light of this portion of paragraph No. 13: “This Release is governed by the laws of New York, without regard to conflict-of-law principles, and is intended to be as broad and inclusive as permitted by the laws of the State of New York.”

and
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That said, there’s enough language in the waiver to give a prudent, careful lawyer legitimate concern that an aggressive litigator would later argue that signing the document defeats all potential employment claims that Kaepernick could have made.


So as to what the NFL would have gotten out of the workout? An effective way to win any future suits Kaepernick could bring. Remember that he has never sued the NFL, the NFLPA did and settled in arbitration.

This comes as as shock to no one that hadn't already sent Kap to hell. It's weird how this situation pretty much follows party lines. I would think the free market capitalists would be applauding Kap for not bowing to an unusual NFL contract so one-sided.
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Re: Kap is back? [davec] [ In reply to ]
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So did anybody sign him? I haven't been paying much attention.
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Re: Kap is back? [PeterP] [ In reply to ]
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PeterP wrote:
So did anybody sign him? I haven't been paying much attention.

Wait 10 days.

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When it comes to Colin Kaepernick, attorney Mark Geragos has a history of making predictions that don’t come to fruition. Geragos, on Tuesday, made his latest prediction regarding Kaepernick’s football future.
Appearing on The Adam Carolla Podcast, Geragos said that two teams are interested in Kaepernick, and that he thinks something could happen in the next 10 days.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/...in-colin-kaepernick/

Suffer Well.
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Re: Kap is back? [davec] [ In reply to ]
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In a move that should surprise no one. Nike announced today that Kaepernick's signature shoe will be released in December.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: Kap is back? [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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j p o wrote:
In a move that should surprise no one. Nike announced today that Kaepernick's signature shoe will be released in December.

This shoe is unlike no other. It is white when you buy it, but turns black after a while.
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Re: Kap is back? [PeterP] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting read with more detail than previously reported.

Not surprisingly, distrust, ego, and more distrust derailed everything. If Colin wanted a crack at playing in the NFL again, he blew it.


Why Colin Kaepernick and the NFL were never going to work out

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Kap is back? [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think that he had any intention of going back to the NFL.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Kap is back? [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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It looks like we were right - the whole thing was a circus from start to finish. That article doesn't make anyone look good.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: Kap is back? [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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Nope.

I thought the whole "all these teams are interested" angle was bullshit from the start. The league was trying to shield two teams expressing interest from blow back while satisfying the "Let Kap Play" contingent's demands to give him a chance. The litigation was settled, football goes on with or without him. They didn't owe him anything at this point.

On the whole, I think the evidence as reported supports my initial belief that the league did enough to give him a platform and exposure for his football worth, and he just didn't trust the process enough to take the opportunity. That was his choice.

Football career officially over.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Kap is back? [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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What interests me is so few of the other minority and white players joined Kap and most of them subsequently ignored him. Did any player besides Kap lose his job in support of Kap or equality? Reid is still a player, but I am not sure if anyone else suffered financially.

"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."
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Re: Kap is back? [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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Did any player besides Kap lose his job

No one, including Kap, lost their jobs because of the protests.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Kap is back? [davec] [ In reply to ]
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Two mysteries:

1). Why isn’t he playing in the NFL;

AND (more puzzling)

2) Why is Nike promoting this dude?

Former NFL player Colin Kaepernick on Saturday accused the United States of targeting minorities "at home and abroad," just days after the administration ordered a drone strike that killed Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani.

https://www.foxnews.com/...s-black-brown-people
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Re: Kap is back? [JD21] [ In reply to ]
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JD21 wrote:
Two mysteries:

1). Why isn’t he playing in the NFL;

AND (more puzzling)

2) Why is Nike promoting this dude?

Former NFL player Colin Kaepernick on Saturday accused the United States of targeting minorities "at home and abroad," just days after the administration ordered a drone strike that killed Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani.

https://www.foxnews.com/...s-black-brown-people

I'll take a shot as to why. #1, he's not good enough and no team wants the baggage. And based on his last "workout" farce, you have to question if he really wants to play. As others have speculated, he's being directed by his radical muslim girlfriend and has no desire to play. If he was on a team, he'd probably have to abide by a clause regarding no anti-American tweets.....like this latest example. His girlfriend wouldn't allow that.
#2, Nike marketing knows what they are doing. Their primary target customer base is young...diverse...mostly liberal. So no problem with making people like Kap and Rapinoe their spokespeople. But on the other side, the vast majority of Nike employee political donations, including Phil and his wife go to Republicans. Personally, I haven't worn or bought Nike since Kap......gave it all to Goodwill.
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Re: Kap is back? [JD21] [ In reply to ]
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JD21 wrote:
Former NFL player Colin Kaepernick on Saturday accused the United States of targeting minorities "at home and abroad," just days after the administration ordered a drone strike that killed Iranian Gen. Qassem Soleimani.

https://www.foxnews.com/...s-black-brown-people

Presuming he's referring to the assassination of the General, it's worth noting that he specifically described that as a "terrorist attack."

This is why he's radioactive. Not disrespecting the troops by kneeling respectfully, or any of that bullshit. It's that it represents how he sees the U.S. as the evil empire while dismissing entirely, with his silence, the evil of those we oppose. He's biased, willfully ignorant, and intentionally inflammatory, and no good deeds in the neighborhood will erase that stain from his reputation and legacy.

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W
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Re: Kap is back? [sphere] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone who doesn't understand why Kaep isn't playing in the NFL is willfully ignorant or a fool, just like Kaep.
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