purchased some SBR rockrs. they are pricey but i dont have the time to build my own and these had solid reviews.

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80/20 Endurance Ambassador

Thanks. When and if they show up here in Japan, I am sure they will be pricier.

Which one is quieter?

I had the old KICKR 2, not the silent KICKR 2018. So, I have no idea. DCR describes the noise of the Neo & KICKR 2018 with essentially the same language, so I take that to mean that they are basically the same loudness.

That said, my KICKR 2016 was a lot louder than my Neo 2, but the fan was louder than the KICKR.

As a non-gravel person, I am pissed that Zwift took the jungle loop and made me not want to ride it anymore because it feels like riding through mush. So now, to get to the Alpe, I have a long (or shorter) road ride, then an extended mushy section, then the road up the Alpe. I don't want to go through the effort to get a trail bike, because that same long lead-in is on road surface, which of course now sucks when riding a trail bike.

I'm all for Zwift adding trail/gravel features, just don't fuck it up for the road bike people.It's a virtual world, make new trail worlds. The jungle loop is now an entire section of Watopia (you know, the world that is ALWAYS there) that I won;'t ride. What a feature improvement. (not funny pink, sad pink)

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I'm closer to the feathered end of the spear than the point.

I currently have a 2015 Kickr that has been flawless. Thinking of getting a new trainer this winter--either the Kickr/Climb combo or the Neo2. Has the Neo2 addressed the virtual slip? I tried the original Neo and could not get past that.

I use Zwift for 100% of my indoor training and enjoy the races. But I can't have "slipping" when sprinting (e.g., 300w-->1200w+ jump), as it would be very frustrating. Also torn between the road feel of the Neo vs. the climb feature from Wahoo. Wish I could get both features!

The Neo 2T supposedly fixes the virtual slip. They added a butt-ton more magnets and faster responsiveness. I think both DCR and GPLama gave it the no-slip thumbs up.

Somewhat in the same boat as the OP - considering primarily the Saris H3, the Kickr and the Taxc Neo 2 (not 2t). With sales starting, the H3 should be ~$800, the Kickr ~$1000 and the Neo 2 is selling at about ~$1000. I am currently leaning to the H3, possibly the Kickr. Any particular reason I should go with the Kickr (or Neo 2) over the Saris? I am primarily a Trainer Road type.

TriowaCPA, any thoughts having had both?

Need to jump in here and note that they only increased the max torque by a few nm--one of my Zwift teammates who has an exceptional sprint bought the 2T in hopes it would solve the problem but still overpowered the magnets in a full sprint. I had a Neo for 3 years and never made it slip, but my sprint isn't great (1150Wmax).

I had seen the DCR article (https://www.dcrainmaker.com/...increased-power.html). Still not convinced the slip is gone for true sprint efforts (was not shown in the article). I'll have to find one to demo or wait for more reviews.

I do not think the problem is max torque or max braking resistance. I think it is the system's responsiveness to sudden resistance transitions. I found it is very easy to cause the slip during high power, low cadence intervals on a Neo 2. (It is probably the same with the Neo 1). Put it in a hard gear (52x11) and pedal around 60 RPM at 250W. In that scenario, the ERG engine is constantly changing the braking resistance with each half-stroke and it makes you feel like you are pedaling on square wheels. The fix is just run in an easier gear on the small chainring.

Need to preface this that my Zwift team is sponsored by Saris, but I'm being 100% honest. In my experience, the Neo has always been bombproof. No calibration is absolutely incredible--just hop on and ride. It's a premium experience. Road feel (cobbles, wood planks, gravel, downhill simulation) is flawless on Zwift (since you'll be on TR, this probably isn't a draw for you).

I think the Kickr has some quality control issues--on my team, 5 riders have Kickrs and over the last 10 months they've each broken them at least once (one guy breaking 3 units) under normal use. I'll give Wahoo credit that their customer service is great about the swapping process, but equipment breaking down is a headache I do not want to mess with ever.

The Saris H3 is an incredible value at $1000 ($800 on clevertraining today with 20% off for VIPs). The H3 is as quiet as my Neo ever was and so smooth to ride. I bought one for my wife to have as a backup before we obtained sponsorship and promptly put my wife's bike on the Neo and started riding the H3 after giving it a try. It's solid.

Basically, if you have extra cash and want the premium, no-calibration experience get a Neo. If you want the same quality ride at a cheaper price, but have to spin down to calibrate: get the H3. Since you'll mainly be on TR with the trainer, the Neo is probably overkill.

TriowaCPA - Thanks! One follow-up question - If it comes down to the H3 and the Neo 2 (not 2t), my only concern (and the primary thing that seems to come up) is the slip of the Neo 2 at higher output - Is this a concern you would have for typical Trainer Road/ ERG type use? Or, is it really only a concern for a particular type of rider, e.g., one that hammers out sprints on Zwift? I am leaning H3, but the Neo2 would only be $200 more??? $200 is nice to save, but in the end I have the money and if it is worth the difference, I have no problem spending for it.Thanks again!

It will absolutely not be an issue in ERG on TrainerRoad. If that's your decision maker, get the Neo!

I should add--my only other gripe with the Neo is how horribly awkward it is to carry haha. I travel a ton for work and take my trainer/bike/laptop to ride in hotel rooms. The Neo is the biggest pain in the ass to haul around (no easy way to carry and so heavy!). That said, my hotel-room neighbors are probably happy I was on a gen 1 Neo instead of a Kickr V1 or Hammer V1 over the last 3 years.

All great points. I’ll add as a long time H1 owner (3 years) the unit is indeed bombproof. It was rocky first few months with few updates but it’s been awesome on erg on Zwift for last 2 years. I did use thick gym foam under the unit to help with a more natural side to side feel without going all rocker plate. I’m sure the h3 is even nicer, quieter and better in most areas.

Couple months ago I got a Neo 2 as I wanted to go quieter and not have the calibration on every ride (I have to move the trainer after every ride). The Neo 2 had issues right away with power jumping in erg and cadence dropping out. I reverted to an older few that lessened the power but the cadence would still stop responding mid ride and the only way to fix it was to jump off the bike, unplug the neo, plug back and resume the ride. It got to be one every other ride, then every ride then multiple times a ride until I started using my quarq for cadence.

In the midst of this is was emailing Garmin (purchased through them from the old blue 365 deal) and Garmin CS had me try few updates, pics until they finally agreed to take the unit back and send me a Neo 2t. Have to say the 2t was perfect right out of the box, updated to few 32, connected with Zwift, and power and cadence works perfectly. Maybe I just got a bad Neo 2. If you’re going Neo pay the extra for the 2t.

Bottom line...if you want the quiet and no calibration ever experience, get the Neo 2t. If you want rock solid, and going to use a rocker plate get the H3. I LOVE the slight side to side movement the Neo offers but the ‘feel’ of the hammer seems to me to be more realistic and more pleasant.

Super-important clarification here... The Neo's problem is not slip at higher power output. It is slip at transition from low braking resistance to a higher braking resistance. Once you are hammering, it is fine; the slip occurs only during the ramp up, so you might only encounter it for one or two pedal strokes.

This for sure happens in ERG mode in TrainerRoad. I can recreate it all day doing low cadence drills at high flywheel speed. In that scenario, it is like each pedal stroke has two low-torque to high-torque transitions and it feels like you are pedaling on square wheels.

In another thread, DCR pointed out that TrainerRoad recommends that you use an easy gear for trainers in ERG mode. If you follow this guidance, then you will probably never encounter the virtual slip thing.

My guess on the root cause of this is that the Neo struggles to maintain power at lower braking resistances. That seems backwards, but there is another annoying Neo behavior I have discovered-- if I am riding in a fast gear but at a moderate power level (below 200W), the Neo simply cannot get down to the power level. For example, I was experimenting a couple nights ago riding a 200W interval in a 52x11 gear. The Neo's indicated power would not go below 220W. Totally annoying.

This is all just my objective observations about the behavior. I would buy my Neo again without any concern.

Spot on--yes you're right. I think ERG should always be done in the small ring with a straight chainline anyways to minimize noise! I never had any issues with Neo slippage and would recommend the trainer to anyone. Indestructible. They also replaced my first unit after 2 years and 800hrs of use because something got out of alignment in the disc. $0 out of pocket--brand new Neo in 5 days.

Thanks to everyone for the info regarding the H3 and the Neo.

lol wot? Says hows its indestructible and then in the very next sentence say how he had to have it replaced...is this real life?

Okay, poor choice of words there, but zero issue until 800 hours of use. it wasn't even broken or mis-reading power; just had a loud humming.

I'm not a typical user. I ride 2-3hrs a day, every single day.

Great info everyone! I just ordered a Neo 2T from REI and I’ll report back once I get a few rides on it. I’m coming from the M2, which has been great also, and now for sale.