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LSD (long slow distance) vs. CFE (cross fit endurance)
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 I stumbled upon the book "Power Speed Endurance" by Brian MacKenzie.

The opening line in the forward says that he is a "polarizing" figure and they reference SLOWTWITCH.COM. The basic premise of his book is instead of just building volume into intensity, then sharpening skill in the disciplines, to start with technique, then build intensity, which will lead to increased stamina.

Any thoughts from those that are familiar with this approach or some things I'd need to consider before altering the LSD program that worked well for me in my last IM??
Last edited by: KRadzi634: Nov 8, 19 9:28
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Re: LSD (long slow distance) vs. CFE (cross fit endurance) [KRadzi634] [ In reply to ]
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KRadzi634 wrote:
I just finished my first full IM and had such a great experience that I signed up for Lake Placid July 26th. As I'm reflecting on this past training cycle and planning for the upcoming build I stumbled upon the book "Power Speed Endurance" by Brian MacKenzie.

The opening line in the forward says that he is a "polarizing" figure and they reference SLOWTWITCH.COM. The basic premise of his book is instead of just building volume into intensity, then sharpening skill in the disciplines, to start with technique, then build intensity, which will lead to increased stamina.

Any thoughts from those that are familiar with this approach or some things I'd need to consider before altering the LSD program that worked well for me in my last IM??

What does "CrossFit Endurance" have to do with this?

Here's the simple truth. If you want to get better at SBR, you SBR consistently, most of the time steady, sometimes very hard. Eat right, get plenty of sleep and that's it.

If you want to get better at sprinting, box jumps, pull ups and picking up and putting down heavy things, you do that.



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Re: LSD (long slow distance) vs. CFE (cross fit endurance) [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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That's what I thought too. I'm not done with the book, and am not sold on the concept, but he makes some pretty compelling arguments... Check it out if you haven't already and thanks for the response!!!
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Re: LSD (long slow distance) vs. CFE (cross fit endurance) [KRadzi634] [ In reply to ]
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KRadzi634 wrote:
That's what I thought too. I'm not done with the book, and am not sold on the concept, but he makes some pretty compelling arguments... Check it out if you haven't already and thanks for the response!!!

Well, the Delaware street nap made a pretty compelling argument also.......
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Re: LSD (long slow distance) vs. CFE (cross fit endurance) [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
KRadzi634 wrote:
That's what I thought too. I'm not done with the book, and am not sold on the concept, but he makes some pretty compelling arguments... Check it out if you haven't already and thanks for the response!!!


Well, the Delaware street nap made a pretty compelling argument also.......

Ashley is so yesterday,these days we ask ourselves,"what would Nick Bare do?". :-)
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Re: LSD (long slow distance) vs. CFE (cross fit endurance) [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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I don't even know what that is
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Re: LSD (long slow distance) vs. CFE (cross fit endurance) [KRadzi634] [ In reply to ]
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KRadzi634 wrote:
I don't even know what that is

search for the Ashley Horner thread on here. That'll catch you up.

actually, on second thought, don't....

Swimming Workout of the Day: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=5784860#5784860;
Favourite Swim Sets: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...m.cgi?;post=5004659;
Unattainable goals for 2019/2020 season. https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6944848#p6944848
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Re: LSD (long slow distance) vs. CFE (cross fit endurance) [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Ahhhh, like the Iron Cowboy 50 in 50 right!?!??!

Yeah, I'm not sure this guy is a gimmick. He's not saying scratch training and volume altogether. He's just challenging the need for the CRAZY LONG sessions-and to substitute that extra time with strength and more intensity into training, which I've heard lots of people on here say also...

I got pneumonia September 16 and was on literal bed rest for 3 weeks before my October 13 IM. Having missed that much time in a build up causes me to question the way I've bean training... But at the same time the swim was cancelled and that was my first IM...
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Re: LSD (long slow distance) vs. CFE (cross fit endurance) [KRadzi634] [ In reply to ]
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KRadzi634 wrote:
Ahhhh, like the Iron Cowboy 50 in 50 right!?!??!

kinda like that, except so much better. I don't mean better in a good way, I mean better in a train-wreck can't take your eyes off it even though you really should way.

Swimming Workout of the Day: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=5784860#5784860;
Favourite Swim Sets: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...m.cgi?;post=5004659;
Unattainable goals for 2019/2020 season. https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6944848#p6944848
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Re: LSD (long slow distance) vs. CFE (cross fit endurance) [KRadzi634] [ In reply to ]
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Where did you get the term "cross fit endurance" (CFE) from? I can't find a reference to it on his website. So, I don't know why you included it in the thread title????

Except from his "about us" page:

"By prioritizing and emphasizing skill development over volume (quality over quantity) Power Speed Endurance incorporates the fundamental principles of movement to every sport. This exposes movement inefficiencies early on so you don’t have to learn technique the old school way through pain and repetition, which ultimately impacts your long-term performance and health. There is another path up the mountain.


With skill development prioritized we gradually increase intensity, establishing your ability to maintain skill under stress though improvements in strength, stability, speed, and power. Only once skill can be performed at higher intensity do we add volume. Volume must be earned by maintaining the skill under stress. We train for position. More is not better. Better is better. It all starts with mastering the fundamental skills; Position is King."


I don't know that the ST philosophy is exactly "at odds" with this verbiage. However, I think that the general opinion around here is that there are differing degrees of skill and technique required for each of SBR. The above citing almost exactly follows the swim video reviews around here and advise from "the fishes"...for exactly the reasons cited: swimming is technique driven.

Running a little less so, but dengerate movement patterns can certainly lead to injury. But, making quick significant changes to running form is likewise a recipe for injury.

But, biking almost zero tehnique (except perhaps for holding a good TT position).

Further, there is an interplay between fitness and technique that isn't isolatable. So, I think that reality is somewhat more subtle...than the false-dichotomy being presented.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Nov 8, 19 12:50
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Re: LSD (long slow distance) vs. CFE (cross fit endurance) [KRadzi634] [ In reply to ]
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McKenzie has some interesting viewpoints and while I don't think they should necessarily all be summarily dismissed, there's a reason why Crossfit Endurance doesn't exist anymore and - to my knowledge - there are no successful professional endurance athletes following his training principals.

If you search around here you'll find plenty of opinions on the topic.
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Re: LSD (long slow distance) vs. CFE (cross fit endurance) [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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What does "CrossFit Endurance" have to do with this?

Here's the simple truth. If you want to get better at SBR, you SBR consistently, most of the time steady, sometimes very hard. Eat right, get plenty of sleep and that's it.

If you want to get better at sprinting, box jumps, pull ups and picking up and putting down heavy things, you do that.



This!

I always apply this test, not an exact science or test, but I think you will get the message. Ask yourself, "Do the Kenyans do this?" If you see a Kenyan, aka the greatest collection of distance runners and endurance athletes in the world, doing something, then by all means incorporate it into your routine. However, almost all adult onset, triathletes or endurance sports athletes will be volume and thus aerobically, deficient for the first 4 - 5 years of their training - you need to put the time and the volume in! Full stop!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: LSD (long slow distance) vs. CFE (cross fit endurance) [ThailandUltras] [ In reply to ]
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I like the Nick Bare videos. I didn't at first, but then started liking it. I don't know much about him, but I respect anytime someone is making a living at doing what they love.
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Re: LSD (long slow distance) vs. CFE (cross fit endurance) [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
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This is good!! Thanks!!!!
The CFE reference was taken from the introduction and first chapter of the book.
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Re: LSD (long slow distance) vs. CFE (cross fit endurance) [Dgconner154] [ In reply to ]
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This is good! I didn't know that this is dated. It was recommended to someone at the gym I work out. But yeah, as I read it I think it's good supplementary fitness for the off season before you start building for a big race... At least that's what I'm thinking. But I haven't finished reading it.
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Re: LSD (long slow distance) vs. CFE (cross fit endurance) [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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YES!! I like this. thanks for the comments this is good feedback
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Re: LSD (long slow distance) vs. CFE (cross fit endurance) [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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"I always apply this test, not an exact science or test, but I think you will get the message. Ask yourself, "Do the Kenyans do this?" If you see a Kenyan, aka the greatest collection of distance runners and endurance athletes in the world, doing something, then by all means incorporate it into your routine"


Given that the last I heard close to 60 Kenyans are currently under suspension for performance enhancing drugs you may want to pick a different example, just saying.
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Re: LSD (long slow distance) vs. CFE (cross fit endurance) [KRadzi634] [ In reply to ]
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Lots of Volume. Some strength training, focus on power movements and lift for strength.

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Hooker training for the Sport of Scrum-Halves [Triathlon]
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Re: LSD (long slow distance) vs. CFE (cross fit endurance) [KRadzi634] [ In reply to ]
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it's a strawman or red herring argument... nobody is arguing for the crazy long sessions he's windmill-tilting against... gimmick.

KRadzi634 wrote:
Ahhhh, like the Iron Cowboy 50 in 50 right!?!??!

Yeah, I'm not sure this guy is a gimmick. He's not saying scratch training and volume altogether. He's just challenging the need for the CRAZY LONG sessions-and to substitute that extra time with strength and more intensity into training, which I've heard lots of people on here say also...

I got pneumonia September 16 and was on literal bed rest for 3 weeks before my October 13 IM. Having missed that much time in a build up causes me to question the way I've bean training... But at the same time the swim was cancelled and that was my first IM...

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Re: LSD (long slow distance) vs. CFE (cross fit endurance) [KRadzi634] [ In reply to ]
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All my PR's have been set, during times of zero strength training. The longest I've gone without injury, is during times I've integrated strength training into my routine. Personally, it slows me down, but keeps me healthy.

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