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how does this sound as the basis of a training plan?
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started on the 80/20 plan a few weeks ago. it was going fine, but I think even that is too much intensity for me at this point. I really need to build up durability.

since I started tracking again, I've been averaging 1 run per week (I know I know). 3 rides and about 2.5 swims. that's the starting point.

so - dial up the run frequency over the next few weeks to start on the 100/100 (with the caveat that I'd realistically be looking at 75/100 to be a success). All easy runs, nothing over Z3 and aiming to keep it in Z2 or Z1. Keep the bike frequency at 3 rides per week, but dial back the intensity so they're simply Z1 recovery rides for anywhere between 45mins to 1:30 on the trainer. Then maintain swim frequency or even try to find an additional slot to fit in an hour each week.

The idea is just to build up run durability and strength, and build cardiovascular (central) fitness to support the real work on the swim.

Then in the spring, after swim season is done, then start adding intensity to the run and bike.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Goals?






Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
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none for triathlon. my goals are all swimming based, trying to get down under 1:00 for a 100 fly in May 2020. my masters best was a 1:00.9 in 2016, then a couple years of reduced swimming for family reasons.

after nationals I may enter a couple of local tris for fun, but they aren't targets. I would like to do reasonably well though. "reasonably well" being a somewhat squishy goal. ;-)

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: Oct 31, 19 8:34
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Very interested because it sounds like our "training plans" are very similar. I am just getting into the sport and basically just trying to fit training into my crazy schedule but seemingly with the same training intensities you mention in hope of building a solid foundation. I am planning on an Olympic distance race in June and then possibly a 70.3 in August.
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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If you've been running once a week I think 75/100 is too aggressive. Go for 50. Keep in mind these are all 30 minute runs.

If you could forget about the 100/100, then I'd run more frequently (5-6x/week), but none would be close to 30 minutes to start out. 5-10-15 minute runs before biking or swimming.
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
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You might be right, I haven't actually worked out the math. but the idea was that I'd be way behind for the first month, and then build the frequency throughout the 100 days so eventually I might even have some doubles and catch up a little. 75 was a WAG. maybe it would actually work out to 60 or so. I'll have to play around with it.

I really should be able to handle 3 easy runs per week right now, so I'd start there. I have zero soreness after running right now, but I'm not pushing it either. My once a week run has usually been in the 25-40 minute range.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: Oct 31, 19 8:53
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
none for triathlon. my goals are all swimming based, trying to get down under 1:00 for a 100 fly in May 2020. my masters best was a 1:00.9 in 2016, then a couple years of reduced swimming for family reasons.

after nationals I may enter a couple of local tris for fun, but they aren't targets. I would like to do reasonably well though. "reasonably well" being a somewhat squishy goal. ;-)

If you were coaching me and my #1 goal was sub 1:00 in 100 fly and I told you I was going to start biking and running

What would tell me?

Dr heel yourself. :).
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [MrTri123] [ In reply to ]
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I know, right!!!

I'm unable to add any more swims to my schedule, it's just not possible. Like I said, I "might" be able to squeeze in one more each week, at less than ideal hours, but that's a big if. So I've gotta get creative, and by bumping up the overall "easy" non-specific training load, then I'm kinda hoping that increase in base level aerobic fitness will give the capacity to absorb higher quality sessions in the pool. So when I'm in the pool for the 3-4 sessions that I have planned, I can make the intervals a little harder, or do one or 2 additional fast efforts.

That's my idea anyway....

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Do you have a treadmill? Determined not to suck so bad on the run next year, I bought a (barely) used True M50 off of FB marketplace so I could train through the winter. Started the Barry P plan about 30 days ago. I had a smidgen of somewhat recent, if disorganized and inconsistent, run training so I started at 3x15 min, 2 x 20min, 1 x 25min which is just a few ticks up the ladder from the "off-the-couch" starting point. I've worked my way up to 15/25/35.

What the treadmill does for me, besides being convenient, is keep me from over-pacing. I'm doing the short and long runs super easy. Like 12min/mile (@ 1.5* incline) EZ which is ~150% of my 5k race pace. Mediums are a little harder, but not hard. Long story short, I'm getting my body used to running regularly without feeling fatigue or soreness. I can do my long run on Sunday morning, and still hit my afternoon Masters Swimming practice with full gusto.

With biking, I've been doing the Trainer Road Sprint Triathlon Base. The VO2 max bike workouts can take a little off my swim sprint kick later in the day, especially on a second set. I've found, however, that I can do 60 minute bike workouts at Sweet Spot intensity in the morning, and still swim great in the afternoon. So while you're right to moderate your bike workouts if swimming is your current priority, you can probably go a harder than Z1 without it being an issue.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Oct 31, 19 12:02
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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If your #1 goal is to swim a 100 fly under a minute, I would also add some serious strength training into the mix. You need some power coming off the walls and maximize your underwaters.

Strava
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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gary p wrote:
Do you have a treadmill? Determined not to suck so bad on the run next year, I bought a (barely) used True M50 off of FB marketplace so I could train through the winter. Started the Barry P plan about 30 days ago. I had a smidgen of somewhat recent, if disorganized, run training so I started at 3x15 min, 2 x 20min, 1 x 25min which is just a few ticks up the ladder from the "off-the-couch" starting point. I've worked my way up to 15/25/35.

What the treadmill does for me, besides being convenient, is keep me from over-pacing. I'm doing the short and long runs super easy. Like 12min/mile (@ 1.5* incline) EZ which is ~150% of my 5k race pace. Mediums are a little harder, but not hard. Long story short, I'm getting my body used to running regularly without feeling fatigue or soreness. I can do my long run on Sunday morning, and still hit my afternoon Masters Swimming practice with full gusto.

With biking, I've been doing the Trainer Road Sprint Triathlon Base. The VO2 max bike workouts can take a little off my swim sprint kick later in the day, especially on a second set. I've found, however, that I can do 60 minute bike workouts at Sweet Spot intensity in the morning, and still swim great in the afternoon. So while you're right to moderate your bike workouts if swimming is your current priority, you can probably go a harder than Z1 without it being an issue.

I don't have one right now, but I'm really thinking of asking my wife to get a used treadmill for me for Christmas. To keep my pace in check, I've been using my Garmin to yell at me if I start going out of the zone.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: Oct 31, 19 11:24
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:

I don't have one right now, but I'm really thinking of asking my wife to get a used treadmill for me for Christmas. To keep my pace in check, I've been using my Garmin to yell at me if I start going out of the zone.

I paid roughly 35% of new retail for a 6 month old unit.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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I think with careful application of the day1+day2 >= 30 rule, early on...and building into the 100/100 that 75 is doable. Something like 30, 10, 20, 0, 30, 20, 10. Then build the 20s into 30s, and the 10s into 20s (and put them back to back to get another 30). I prefer to get everything up to 30+ and then work build the medium and long runs up from there. I feel like i get a lot more from a minimum of 30min each day, instead of really short runs (5-15min).

But, I'm more of a runner's build at 67 kg.
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
I know, right!!!

I'm unable to add any more swims to my schedule, it's just not possible. Like I said, I "might" be able to squeeze in one more each week, at less than ideal hours, but that's a big if. So I've gotta get creative, and by bumping up the overall "easy" non-specific training load, then I'm kinda hoping that increase in base level aerobic fitness will give the capacity to absorb higher quality sessions in the pool. So when I'm in the pool for the 3-4 sessions that I have planned, I can make the intervals a little harder, or do one or 2 additional fast efforts.

That's my idea anyway....

If that is your idea, than I would only bike for the added stress/load. Running is high impact and even easy session will take away from the quality of your swim. Biking is siting on a chair and moving your legs in a circle - you can control how much load you are adding and make sure you are not impacting your swim quality. And of course, much less chance of injury. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [dgutstadt] [ In reply to ]
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This endeavor rewards consistency. So whatever you have to do to be consistent with all 3 legs, week in and week out, month after month, that is best.
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Jason, having read many of your posts thru the years you seem like a really well thought out person..

You also seem to have well thought out your direction for next year.

If I were in your shoes I would give swimming my highest priority - more swims, higher quality swims and supplemental strength training. I would use running and spinning (biking) more as a recovery tool, especially as we enter the winter months. Breaking a minute in the hundred fly is nothing to sneeze at and will likely require a significant effort.

After you build your swim fitness and the weather gets a little better maybe think about re-prioritizing.

Good luck!

Steve
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Fun plan! Nothing to add, besides I don’t find Z1 cycling to do anything for me at low durations - besides getting blood flowing.

Something in Z2 probably is much more efficient for building fitness , without fatiguing your legs for running
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [dgutstadt] [ In reply to ]
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dgutstadt wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
I know, right!!!

I'm unable to add any more swims to my schedule, it's just not possible. Like I said, I "might" be able to squeeze in one more each week, at less than ideal hours, but that's a big if. So I've gotta get creative, and by bumping up the overall "easy" non-specific training load, then I'm kinda hoping that increase in base level aerobic fitness will give the capacity to absorb higher quality sessions in the pool. So when I'm in the pool for the 3-4 sessions that I have planned, I can make the intervals a little harder, or do one or 2 additional fast efforts.

That's my idea anyway....

If that is your idea, than I would only bike for the added stress/load. Running is high impact and even easy session will take away from the quality of your swim. Biking is siting on a chair and moving your legs in a circle - you can control how much load you are adding and make sure you are not impacting your swim quality. And of course, much less chance of injury. Just my 2 cents.

you might be right about the added stress. Just thinking about this some more..

Swim schedule - Sun / Mon / Thurs evenings. I MIGHT be able to add Tuesday late evenings (like 8:30 - 9:30), but that's a big if and not likely to be a regular thing. I do find that I enjoy running more than sitting on the trainer (even though I suck at running), so maybe the best option is to add easy runs on Monday after swim, Wednesday, Friday to give the legs time to recover before the next swim. and then just see how it goes.

I have a meet next weekend, so I'm cutting out the bike and run for a week anyway. Then I'll start adding them back in and see how it goes. If the swim workout quality is degrading at all, then I'll rethink this strategy. But so far on the one run and 3 or so bikes each week, my swim practice times are improving.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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So what's your swim training plan for getting under 1:00?

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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gary p wrote:
So what's your swim training plan for getting under 1:00?

Pretty much my normal stuff in the pool. right now is building up general fitness, even working a bit of breaststroke (ugh...) and back. I'll get more specific in March & April to early May with race pace efforts (Not USRPT though). I'll have about a month between Provincials and Nationals to make adjustments. No taper for provincials though.

I'm not changing much there, since I know it works.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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I'm already 13 years in triathlon, but must admit that I have no idea what is meant by the following expressions:
100/100, 75/100, 80/20 an so on. What kind of terminology is that?
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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100/100 is the annual ST 100 runs in 100 days challenge. 75/100 would be 75 runs over the same period.

80/20 refers to a training load distribution that's been popularised recently, essentially polarized training. 80% easy (Z1/Z2) and 20% Z3 and up, trying to avoid so called "grey zones".

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: how does this sound as the basis of a training plan? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
100/100 is the annual ST 100 runs in 100 days challenge. 75/100 would be 75 runs over the same period.

80/20 refers to a training load distribution that's been popularised recently, essentially polarized training. 80% easy (Z1/Z2) and 20% Z3 and up, trying to avoid so called "grey zones".


thanks
Now I read the thread again and at least I understood it.
Although 1 minute for 100 fly is not my world, be it 100 yards or 100 metres.

To running: I generally never run more than 3 times a week, 4 or 5 times is an exception to me. I do not run < 1h often though, most runs are longer. 100/100 is an interesting concept.
Last edited by: longtrousers: Nov 3, 19 0:22
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