I haven't ever dug a hole that deep but I'm pretty sure that if you have actually got to the "overtraining" state, then it is imperative to get out of training completely for several months. Otherwise you're going to be behind the recovery curve for a LONG time.

A co-worker got mono, possibly exacerbated by extended tri training, and he was off for quite a while.

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Less is more.

I was going to post something about this, from the angle of seeking optimal performance more than recovering from a hole.

Maybe it's just my imagination, but I notice a pattern in superlative performance from those forced into time off. Anne Haug at Kona. Mat Hayman at Paris-Roubaix. Makes me wonder if a kind of "super recovery" is an effective training tool.

A day of recovery doesn't seem to be cutting it for me. I saw this and wondered : https://bengreenfieldfitness.com/...-and-ready-to-train/

Thank you for your answer.

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Reminds me of a positive correlation of forced time off from marathon training due to injuries/illness leading up to their best marathons coming off that forced rest.

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Not gonna click on a Greenfield link!

But to answer the question about real overtraining. Been there. Can take months. However I'd disagree with the advice to cut all training. For me, it worked best to continue to train *very* lightly. Or in alternative sports. Take up surfing or something. Cutting all physical activity can lead to the extremely depressing condition of being both overtrained and fat and out-of-shape.

Is there an inside joke on a Greenfield link? Should I delete it? There was so much information, I was overwhelmed.

Likely to follow your advice to train very lightly. Another mistake I maybe making is taking a rest day after a very heavy training day which leaves me feeling exhausted during my rest day. Might try a rest day after a light training day so I don't feel tired/sore everyday.

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Real overtraining can result in no return to sport ever. Sometimes the metabolic systems just get screwed up and never trturm to normal. There's a thread on here that pops up about once a year from someone who spiraled into OTS, It popped up a few months ago... He was still deep in the grips with no end in sight.

I'd call that "severe" rather than "real".

Perhaps. My dad was a physician, he's treated several people with conditions such as scottriguy, in the linked thread below, over the course of his career. AND, not many who got better. But, maybe he didn't get referrals for patients who recovered otherwise. Dunno

I think this is the thread I'm thinking of:

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6853680#p6853680

"Not gonna click on a Greenfield link!"

You know you want to, It's like looking at a fat guy or into the sun: You know it's going to hurt but you can't help youself :)

Ben Greenfield has gained a reputation over the years as a snake oil salesman. He does seem fairly intelligent, but he always pimping some magic bracelet or weird supplements. He’s the Doctor Oz of fitness. Greenfield lost all credibility went he started espousing anti-vacation stuff on twitter and his podcast earlier this year.

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Matt

A couple years ago, I went through a severe bout of overtraining. I reduced my training load for about a year, but I probably should have taken some time off. I can't know for sure, but I suspect I would have come back stronger and sooner if I had.

As a result of the overtraining, I lost about 20% of my FTP. Now, two years later, I have regained only about 1/3 of what I lost. But I feel better. Still working on it.

I assume typo for anti-vaccination? Because anti-vacation seems extreme even for him.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

Crowie has one of those as well - maybe the year of his last Kona win. Got sick in the spring and wondered if it helped him in Kona.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

Good to know. Thinking off reducing training to a guaranteed day off weekly which would take away one heavy day of training. If that doesn't work, then maybe four rest days a week with three easy days of swim and lifting until the go to bed fatigue and soreness is gone.

I've heard of pros (Gomez) taking weeks off at the end of every year. Doesn't seem to hurt him.

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

With a click imbedded in every paragraph, there were prompts to buy. Got it, thanks.

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

My overtraining occurred WHILE I had a guaranteed rest day without a workout every week. And I took a "rest week" every four weeks when I did moderate level (not recovery level) workouts for five days. When you over-bury yourself on the other days, you can still find yourself in an overtrained condition.

My latest tactic is to take the recovery days EASY -- at a genuine recovery level -- and to work HARD on my hard days. Doing real recovery days is extremely difficult for me. It takes more discipline for me to do a real recovery day than to do a HIIT day. But I'm seeing positive results. I should have started doing easy recovery days 20 years ago.

Haha. Yes, that. Damn autocorrect strikes again

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Matt

How long do you hard-charging age groupers take at the end of the season? I haven't run in two weeks now after my last big race, mostly because I strained my hip, but it seems to make sense to back off the running.

I've done some light biking yet I started my fall/winter strength emphasis only a few days after the race.

I'll admit, that I used to only take time off when injured. If I could go a year without missing a day that seemed ideal to me. It was much easier to do in my 20s - 30s.

With Lydiard training, we just dropped back to easy running and then quickly back to base running for as long as possible before our hill training and then interval training periods. Then I just brought that with me to triathlon training.

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Cody Beals just announced he took 10 days OFF

This year I took 8 solid days off, Day 7 i ended up playing 14hrs of WoW... It was time to start exercising again.
First week back was super sporadic with exercise, but I got about 6 workouts in.
Week 2 (now) getting into the groove again. Full on swim load. Short but often easy light running until I increase more mpw than last season . Sprinkling striders or hills in there every so often in the coming couple weeks is the plan. Biking on the weekends is still long, but HR was up probably due reduced blood volume. 2 TR workouts for Mon-Fri. Starting with workouts like shasta (8x20s 200%) Progress that a bit, then head into some sweet spot and standard z2 rides.

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IG - @ryanppax
http://www.geluminati.com
Use code ST5 for $5 off your order

I think this is your problem. A day? Really?

I think a lot of top-level athletes have an easy week every 3-4 weeks and at least a couple blocks of "do nothing" time every year. Basically an early season and mid-season break. Everyone is different but 3 to 5 days of getting away from exercising and relaxing is probably the minimum during the season and a week or two of nothing at the end of the season. Also remember that these are people who get paid to exercise, so that have a different set of priorities and support networks (i.e., no job, kids, life craziness stress).

As for coming back after a forced break. I spent five days in the hospital after an accident in early June. Broken ribs and a collapsed lung meant it was a really slow and gradual recovery, but about 8 or 9 weeks later I was mostly back and actually managed to win a National Championship. I sort of credit that forced early season break with being much fresher at the end of the year. Usually by September I am pretty cooked because I tend to want to keep going hard when I hit a good patch of fitness and don't get a decent break in the late spring.

I'm going to use your old thread so people can read about similar experiences.

This year I found out at IMWI that I actually was in a very long period of non-improvement. I've logged many hours but on the race day the legs started to complain on mile 1 (one) or the ride. In addition to that it was a very hard year at work and overall I just felt very bad almost all the time.

So I decided to do a super recovery following main ideas of Matt Dixon books. 3 weeks of absolutely no structured training. 4 hours of easiest s/b/r imaginable.

10 weeks of very easy training, practically no quality sessions. Even runs had walking breaks every mile. About 6-7 hours of s/b/r and 1 hour of functional strength. I was doing half of TSS/week of my usual training and 1/3 of peak one. I don't think I exercised so little and kept so much weight since 2014. But around week 8 I actually started to feel like a human being again and thoughts of racing anything didn't scary me anymore.

This week I did some tests after the recovery period:

Swimming. 1mile swim in the pool - only about 15 sec slower than my PR
Biking. Zwift Ramp FTP test - only about 3W less than my PR
Running. This had the biggest drop. I usually do a 6mi tempo run trying to hold 6:30/mile. This time I did around 6:30-6:40 only for 4 miles and then stopped because it totally didn't feel like a tempo anymore. But still I'd say I'm at 80% of my best performances.

So the results of 4 months of super recovery are encouraging. My next training cycle focus will be to try to build on top of that without getting into overtraining.