True, but most home treadmills are NOT constant within the stride. The motors and the controllers aren't good enough, so the do actually slow down with the footfall and accelerate through the stride.

I've been doing lots of speed work on my TM lately and experience this quite a bit. It seems to be good because I can tell when I'm over striding and decelerating the TM instead of keeping the stride more relaxed and underneath me.

I did a couple strides on the streadmill jsut the other day. 30s ish at 4:45 pace. My legs kept up and i was running really smooth. No way in hell would I have been so graceful out on the asphalt.

---

IG - @ryanppax
http://www.geluminati.com
Use code ST5 for $5 off your order

That's super interesting and fits with my
personal observation. I run with the same footpod (stryd) inside and out and consistently find that my HR is 5ish BPM higher on the treadmill than outside at the same pace. Thus, I usually run marginally slower on TM (0.1-0.2 mph) compared to outside for same HR zone and perceived effort. I've tried to come up with an explanation but poorer running economy is better than anything else I've come up with.

And yes I do have two fans blasting me on the TM and run with the same cadence, etc, trying to mimic outdoor running as much as I can.

Anyone running on an Assault Air Runner?
Just got mine two days ago, really like the feel of running on the thing.
Me being a fat bastard (105kgs) I hate the belt slowing down on impact on a traditional TM, not an issue on the AirRunner.
Speed 100% matches the Stryd but power compared to outdoor speed is off, way higher on the AirRunner.

Winter is coming, and it looks good for indoor running 😃

IMO

Treadmill is a softer surface than road/sidewalk. Helps me with leg speed/turnover. Tend to race my training where my treadmill pace = race pace.

Outside running is so much better for ankle strength / push off. Even in FL, the terrain/curbs are more variable than a treadmill. Works muscles more.

I do live in FL and mix treadmill, roads and golf course running.

---

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

My old coach told the benefit of running on the treadmill is less wear and tear on the body. It also offers the ability to focus on specific aspects of the run. For instance if you put the incline at 6-7% you can work on your knee drive, if you want you can work on your cadence too. I sometimes use it to work on other aspects of my run.

---

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"

I find the treadmill is worse on my knees and shins?

Boredom and sweat are my biggest enemies on the treadmill. Most gyms I’ve been to don’t have standalone fans which would get you a long way towards managing the sweat issue, but still not as good as running in cool weather outside. I also lengthen my stride when running fast and would not feel comfortable doing speed work on most treadmills as a consequence.

Really good for uphill power hiking practice - set the grade to max and increase speed until near aerobic threshold. Less run-specific but more so than cycling and very little impact.

there is nothing really to different about treadmill (TM) and outside running. You need to set the TM to 1-1.5% incline to mimic outside normal motor patterning. That's about the biggest thing you need to think about.

There are a ton of threads on ST over the last 15 years on the benefits of TM running.

I suggest you search through the archives

---

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

I think treadmill running definitely has it's place in my training. If not only for the fact that I will have a run day, and it will be raining shit outside. So, to the treadmill I go. But here are a couple of things I have personally learned about the treadmill:

• My pace on the treadmill is always about 30-45s/mi faster than outdoors at similar heartrates.
• With treadmill running, you do not get the wind resistance aspect of running. In running mechanics, the muscle that almost exclusively counters the resistance of wind is the Glute muscle. Therefore, I believe that treadmill running SLIGHTLY under-utilizes the glute muscle. UNLESS, you include incline on the treadmill.
• Since I can run at faster speeds at the same heartrate on the treadmill, it has been GREAT for training faster leg speeds for upcoming races. Especially when considering intervals on the treadmill. I can run at speeds way faster than outdoors, at Z3-Z4 heartrates.
• While treadmill is easier on the legs, there is a downside to this as well. You are not training your feet/legs to be very resilient at all. Thus, I have to incorporate foot strength exercises at home to make sure my feet are still strong and guard against injuries. I still also like to do trail running around my area for the scenery, feet strength, and climbing (Usually good for my quads)

TLDR: Treadmill running definitely has it's place in my training, but I would not use it exclusively.

---

- Jordan

My Strava

After 34 years of running I finally bought a treadmill for those days when the weather is just too nasty to run outside.
I don't know if its just me but I find that running on the treadmill seems considerably harder than outside. An 8:00 pace on the treadmill seems harder than the same pace outside. At least to me.
Also I find I really have to concentrate on what Im doing or I start to run like a drunken sailor, weaving all over the place. LOL.

Personally, I find TM effort is much harder. For me, I have to run at least :30/mile slower on TM to mimic a similar outdoor effort. Running an __/mile pace on the TM just feels way faster to me than the same pace outdoors. So
that, the sweat/cooling, and boredom keep me away from the TM more than once a week, but I can certainly see the benefits.

Very interesting. I have indeed heard other people saying that running on the treadmill was harder/slower for them. I have really been looking into purchasing a foot pod for pacing, to really see if my treadmill pace is accurate or not. I am leaning towards that it is, because, since I do it at the gym, I can use 19 different treadmills all of the same brand, and the pace seems exactly the same amongst every one of them. Unless the treadmill brand is off in general. But they are high quality treadmills, and I don't think that is the case.

---

- Jordan

My Strava

Treadmills are notoriously inaccurate. My treadmill is correct at exactly one pace: 3.0 mph (average women's walking pace...coincidence?). I have a footpod. I spend a lot of time back and forth between road running and TM running...all year long. I've done quite a bit of comparison between RPE, HR, pace indoors and out using my footpod. In past years I've also had the chance to compare to other hotel TMs. Hotel (and gym) TM's are usually more accurate, but often they don't have adequate cooling which confounds RPE/HR.

I've even gone to the trouble of determining the "ideal" incline setting to get the same footpod pace, RPE, and HR as I get outside (under the same environmental conditions). On my TM that's 2.0*. YMMV.

Bottom line? My home TM speed is between 45s and 1:15 per mile SLOW compared to my footpod/HR/RPE pace indications. I completely ignore the TM pace indicator, and follow my footpod.

That said, remember footpods are only accurate for your "average" daily pace. They won't do as well when you are running 2-3mpm faster for 1600m, 800m, 400m, or shorter fast repeats. Typically for me, the footpod will read LOW for fast paces.

Wow. Thanks for the insight Tom. Question for you (Not to derail the OP thread) what footpod are you using?

---

- Jordan

My Strava

Garmin standard foot pod. (not the running dynamics version).

Thanks for the feedback! It makes me feel better to know its not that I just suck on the TM. :)

I agree that TMs are notoriously inaccurate, but for sure, if your TM is over 10-15sec/mi 'off' your typical pace outdoors for a similar flat surface, it is miscalibrated and shouldn't be relied upon.

Any decent $1500 TM that is calibrated shouldn't be off by 10-15sec/mi for the same effort. My Sole F80 at 1% incline is definitely <10sec/mi off my outdoor pace based on hard intervals and HR correlation.

“That said, remember footpods are only accurate for your "average" daily pace. They won't do as well when you are running 2-3mpm faster for 1600m, 800m, 400m, or shorter fast repeats. Typically for me, the footpod will read LOW for fast paces. “

Completely agree with the exception being stryd

I did a huge amount of TM running in my earlier triathlon days, from hard Tabata-style 20 sec max incline intervals to long slow runs (>2hrs on the TM). It got me down to a decent sub-40 10k.

As I got more serious and especially as I switched to IM, I moved outdoors. I began to enjoy the outdoor runs, even the night time runs. I also thought it prepared me better for the pounding/impact in actual events.

My treadmill has quite a spring in it, so simply has to significantly reduce impact.

On the other hand ... one evening I went in to do a 30 min easy run on the treadmill. I felt a bit odd somehow, couldn't quite put my finger on it, but kept running. 20 mins in my knee started hurting, I stopped but too late, I was off running for the next 5-6 weeks.

Summary: I still think it is a fantastic training tool, but I think you should mix it up with being on the road. And also work on any imbalances and form etc to prevent injury either way.

Any update on your Air Assault experience?

I finally got a treadmill this year, b/c I won't have access to the treadmills at my gym (on a university campus) until students return maybe as late as next January.

I'm in south Louisiana, so I can say Florida and I have two things to love about treadmills: first is the ability to run hills without driving for hours or doing repeats on a sunny highway overpass. I've trained for Boston, in part, by running "hills" on a treadmill.

The second big one is the ability to avoid summer heat and sun. In the gulf south, a midsummer long run either starts at 4 a.m. to finish by 7, or it risks heat exhaustion and dehydration. It's typical to have pre-dawn temps over 80 with humidity at or near 100%. That's no picnic even in the dark. That's the main reason I got a treadmill of my own -- I don't want to get up at 3 a.m. every Saturday in the summer. NB: A Vornado fan is a really good asset on the treadmill to keep you cool.

Other things to think about: Vary the pace and incline on the treadmill. If you run long at the same pace and same incline at the same cadence, you're using the same muscles in the same range over and over, which can cause repetitive stress problems. After 2-3 miles of warmup, I'll vary the incline and (usually) the pace each mile. That also makes the run a little more interesting. (A TV and a binge-able series or football game is the real secret to preventing boredom.)

Even in the heat, keep running outside some, to maintain your heat acclimation and to me sure your body remembers how to run on uneven surfaces. I run a relatively mild trail at least once a week to keep my ankles strong and my proprioception sharp. I also do all of my track workouts outside, to avoid tripping at a 400m pace and rocketing off the back of the treadmill! I use the treadmill mainly for long runs or thunderstorms.

---

<The Dew Abides>

My treadmill is more forgiving than cement or asphalt, but even more so I really like that I can fully control the pacing, and that in turn has taught me my outdoor pacing.

Plus certain types of intervals or progression runs are super hard to control outside unless you are running on a pretty much empty track. I do runs where i run easy early on and then upclick every 1km or every .5km and towards the end in even shorter intervals.

When I run outside now I mostly run on trails in scenic locations.