Re: Women's Marathon Record, Smashed [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Oct 13, 19 14:06

Post #26 of 43 (2720 views)

Interesting stuff... women can be paced by men the entire race...I had nit actually thought about that before, stupid me.
By the way, I go for Bekele to break the 2h in a regular marathon. The guy, reset less than a 1 year ago after a "break" and comes up with an almost WR...just insane.
I did not like the INEOS stuff. Not emotional at all. Everything but natural... Do that against Mo Farahs,Bekeles, and all african bunch. The difference between the athletic track records (100-200-400-hurdles,jump,etc) and the marathons or even 1500-5000-10000 with pacers is there too. One of great ones is the Rudisha's...solo at the front. Pacers is a business itself.

Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P

Re: Women's Marathon Record, Smashed [juanillo] [ In reply to ]

Oct 13, 19 14:31

Post #27 of 43 (2700 views)

Sorry if someone has already mentioned this, but the Women have "Womens Only Race Marathon Record" (2:17:01) and "Womens and Mens Marathon Record" (when ratified will be 2:14:04 from today).

Yeah, lots of controversy around women being paced all the way to the finish line (in women and mens races) or not (women only, in something like races where women's gun is 20 minutes before the men, or the Worlds or Olympics).

This is a cynical bunch! I'm just amazed that she smashed it by so much. Pacing or not.

Re: Women's Marathon Record, Smashed [JopeCup2012] [ In reply to ]

Oct 13, 19 14:43

Post #28 of 43 (2677 views)

JopeCup2012 wrote:

This is a cynical bunch!

I was thinking the same thing. I enjoyed seeing all the performances this weekend. Life is too short to bitch and moan about this. Enjoy the spectacle and watching people push the limits of human performance, even if they have some sort of advantage that used to not exist. Otherwise I guess we should go back to making everyone wear leather spikes and run on dirt tracks

Matt

Re: Women's Marathon Record, Smashed [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Oct 13, 19 17:46

Post #29 of 43 (2602 views)

Slowman wrote:

SDJ wrote:

You have to remember when Ratcliff set the record she was surrounded by pace setters(Men) the entire way. At least today they limit the number of pace setters a runner can have. The men have them too. Nobody has pacers in Boston or NYC but in London, Berlin, Chicago and Tokyo they are allowed and it’s a heavy negotiation between the runners and or agents as to which pacers are allowed and what those paces will be.

The funny thing is today the pacers set out at 2:16 pace and she said no, go faster!

A case in point is Bekele three weeks ago in Berlin. He went 2:01:41 or 2 seconds slower than the world mark set by Kipchoge. In London last year Kipchoge wanted a world record pace from the gun but Bekele did not. They negotiated two separate pace groups. Kipchoge didn’t set the record but nobody really challenged him either. The guys with the slower pace group never caught up. Without that negotiation in Berlin, Bekele was able to set his pace which was very conservative and then he turned it on over the final 15K to get darn close to the record.

i don't remember the circumstances of paula's record. i do remember having this debate, recurring, about whether it's okay to have men pacing the women. i just think the answer is no. the sub-2 run was just silly. i could't watch it. a truck with a line beamed on the ground representing 2hr. a phalanx of runners around the guy, switching out. my thought, we just encase him in a moving dome? that shoots air up from the ground? like a huge air hockey table? uplifting him? and it's pure oxygen inside the dome? let's see if we can break 1:55?

Well they didn't go with a huge downhill course like jack and jill... yet.

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Re: Women's Marathon Record, Smashed [BobAjobb] [ In reply to ]

Oct 13, 19 18:03

Post #30 of 43 (2593 views)

Yup. Imagine the cycling "Hour record" with pacers and any "new innovative" equipment. They would bring it to 70 km...

LOuis :-)

Re: Women's Marathon Record, Smashed [louisn] [ In reply to ]

Oct 13, 19 19:54

Post #31 of 43 (2532 views)

she is barely standing and they throw her around for the media dogs .. such a bland celebration for someone who just destroyed the WR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIr5HvG7cBc

Last edited by: synthetic: Oct 13, 19 19:55

Re: Women's Marathon Record, Smashed [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Oct 13, 19 22:55

Post #32 of 43 (2476 views)

Watch out, I was called silly for saying something similar yesterday...

Re: Women's Marathon Record, Smashed [JopeCup2012] [ In reply to ]

Oct 13, 19 22:59

Post #33 of 43 (2472 views)

What really raises eye brows is that being an accomplished marathoner she bested her previous record by 4 minutes. Ahem...

Re: Women's Marathon Record, Smashed [ecce-homo] [ In reply to ]

Oct 14, 19 2:19

Post #34 of 43 (2436 views)

ecce-homo wrote:

What really raises eye brows is that being an accomplished marathoner she bested her previous record by 4 minutes. Ahem...

As Mars once said, it’s gotta be da shoes

Re: Women's Marathon Record, Smashed [synthetic] [ In reply to ]

Oct 14, 19 6:13

Post #35 of 43 (2350 views)

synthetic wrote:

she is barely standing and they throw her around for the media dogs .. such a bland celebration for someone who just destroyed the WR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIr5HvG7cBc

Does anyone know who made Paula's backpack? D'Wife wants one

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Re: Women's Marathon Record, Smashed [FFigawi] [ In reply to ]

Oct 14, 19 12:49

Post #36 of 43 (2244 views)

FFigawi wrote:

ecce-homo wrote:

What really raises eye brows is that being an accomplished marathoner she bested her previous record by 4 minutes. Ahem...

As Mars once said, it’s gotta be da shoes

from letsrun,

“My agent told me [I’m] supposed to use the pink one (the Next%), and I refuse. I was just 50-50 to use the pink one. But something come in my mind, say that yesterday, [Eliud] Kipchoge run and use the same shoes and the other pacemakers [did too]. Why not me?”

– Brigid Kosgei speaking after running her 2:14:04 world record about how she initially didn’t want to wear Nike’s ZoomX Vaporfly Next% shoe, but was convinced after watching the INEOS 1:59 Challenge.

Re: Women's Marathon Record, Smashed [hadukla] [ In reply to ]

Oct 14, 19 20:55

Post #37 of 43 (2179 views)

hadukla wrote:

Well they didn't go with a huge downhill course like jack and jill... yet.

Can't set a world record downhill. Can't even set a world record at Boston... or even Big Sur... because they're too downhill. Not to mention ANY point to point course is subject to review to make sure it's not a "wind aided" record.

Re: Women's Marathon Record, Smashed [ecce-homo] [ In reply to ]

Oct 14, 19 21:08

Post #38 of 43 (2168 views)

ecce-homo wrote:

What really raises eye brows is that being an accomplished marathoner she bested her previous record by 4 minutes. Ahem...

That, and when her agent also represented Rita Jeptoo (2x Boston & Chicago winner) and Jemima Sumgong (Rio Olympic marathon gold), and both were busted for EPO and suspended.

But yes, they have the "Women's Only" record where no male pacers are allowed, and the Women's record, where male pacers are allowed.

Aside from any potential drug use, it looked like a well executed race, and smart to utilize pacers etc. Why not? As long as it's legal. I just think a 2:14 was a little too much.. just hard to believe, especially when Radcliffe's record in 2:15 was hard to believe and no other female was close to it. Kosgei ran a 2:47 back in 2015.

Re: Women's Marathon Record, Smashed [beastofbourbon] [ In reply to ]

Oct 14, 19 21:23

Post #39 of 43 (2157 views)

beastofbourbon wrote:

hadukla wrote:

Well they didn't go with a huge downhill course like jack and jill... yet.

Can't set a world record downhill. Can't even set a world record at Boston... or even Big Sur... because they're too downhill. Not to mention ANY point to point course is subject to review to make sure it's not a "wind aided" record.

Yeah. I know. That was in response to Dan's comment about using air assist and other ridiculous things to break 2. The irony is that they didn't even consider using a downhill course.

808 > NYC > PDX > YVR
2024 Races: Taupo

Re: Women's Marathon Record, Smashed [phoenixR34] [ In reply to ]

Oct 14, 19 22:16

Post #40 of 43 (2140 views)

phoenixR34 wrote:

ecce-homo wrote:

What really raises eye brows is that being an accomplished marathoner she bested her previous record by 4 minutes. Ahem...

That, and when her agent also represented Rita Jeptoo (2x Boston & Chicago winner) and Jemima Sumgong (Rio Olympic marathon gold), and both were busted for EPO and suspended.

But yes, they have the "Women's Only" record where no male pacers are allowed, and the Women's record, where male pacers are allowed.

Aside from any potential drug use, it looked like a well executed race, and smart to utilize pacers etc. Why not? As long as it's legal. I just think a 2:14 was a little too much.. just hard to believe, especially when Radcliffe's record in 2:15 was hard to believe and no other female was close to it. Kosgei ran a 2:47 back in 2015.

She's only 25... that 2:47 came at age 21, and I'm not sure how many other marathons she had competed in. Just half a year later she went 2:27 and it's been a strong but continuing progression since then.

Re: Women's Marathon Record, Smashed [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Oct 14, 19 22:21

Post #41 of 43 (2136 views)

Slowman wrote:

SDJ wrote:

I’ve been fortunate to be on the sidelines working but also watching the many attempts to break that record. Most of those attempts were in London where Paula set the record. Today when Kosgei went by me tucked in with her two pacers shoe looked relaxed and in control. It was real special to hear she broke the record.

because you and boots mentioned this, i'm guessing there's some pink in your comments?

we have a rule in triathlon. it's right in the written rules. i helped write the rule in fact. once you abandon your own race ambitions - meaning, you race in a way that subordinates your own best performance in service of another - that's it. you're out. you're DQd. the person you're serving is DQd.

now, i know that this is not quite the same thing in running. we see records set on the track because pacesetters were deployed. but at a minimum, they must be of the same gender. at some point you have to go out and do the thing yourself. i didn't see this race. but if the pacesetters were male then, sorry, no record. in my book.

I'm with you on this one.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Re: Women's Marathon Record, Smashed [monty] [ In reply to ]

Oct 15, 19 1:35

Post #42 of 43 (2101 views)

monty wrote:

Trying to remember back what the milestones I can recall, The Aussies Derek Clayton going sub 2;10, the Rob DeCastella going low 2;08, and the one I really remember is Carlos Lopes going low 2;07 at what was then an advanced age of 37 I believe. After that it is just a blur of Africans for the next 30 years chipping away at it from various countries, to where we are now.
.

Hopefully my memory can fill a few gaps. (If not, there's always Google)

Clayton went 2:08 in Antwerp in 1969.
Salazar went low 2:08 at New York in '81.
Deek's Fukuoka time came a few months later and was 5 seconds slower than Salazar's (then recognised) WR.
Welshman Steve Jones set a new 2:08 in Chicago in 1984.
Lopez went 2:07 in Rotterdam the following year.
Densimo (Djibouti) ran 2:06 in '88(?) to be the first of the Africans to hold the WR since Abebe Bikila.

Salazar's NYC performance was invalidated only after it was surpassed by Jones, affording Deek the retrospective honour of being a WR holder.

Re: Women's Marathon Record, Smashed [SDJ] [ In reply to ]

Oct 15, 19 1:52

Post #43 of 43 (2087 views)

SDJ wrote:

I’ve been fortunate to be on the sidelines working but also watching the many attempts to break that record. Most of those attempts were in London where Paula set the record. Today when Kosgei went by me tucked in with her two pacers shoe looked relaxed and in control. It was real special to hear she broke the record.

I know this thread has delivered a few tangents, but this is the only post to directly mention Brigid Kosgei by name.

While not singling anyone out, it's possibly a little disappointing and disrespectful.

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