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Leg cramps after long runs
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gnat1001
Sep 30, 19 7:38
Post #1 of 14 (1905 views)
Hi everyone. I've done some research but still not sure what my issue might be so I decided to post here and hopefully get some feedback on the possible issue.

In 2017 I trained for a marathon. I noticed that once my long runs got over 16 miles, my legs would start feeling weak/tired toward the end of the run. Also once I finished my run, my legs would really cramp bad and I would need to take some meds and a warm bath to calm them down. I had hoped that these issues were just from training and I would be fine on race day since I had started tapering two weeks prior. Sadly my legs cramped up bad at the race and had to walk/run the last few miles.

I've decided to try running a marathon again. This time I added more salt and electrolytes to my running routine in the hopes that was the source of my issues but yesterday I did 17 miles and had the same issues as last time. Would really like to run this marathon and not have to settle for just a half.

Any ideas on the issue? Let me know what questions you might have. I'll try to answer them as best I can.
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Re: Leg cramps after long runs [gnat1001] [ In reply to ]
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TriStart
Sep 30, 19 13:26
Post #2 of 14 (1820 views)
Maybe there's an imbalance between the muscles which cramp and other muscles in your legs which you use during running, so the muscles which cramp are being worked too hard for what they can do. Maybe some specific strength training (and mobility and/or stretching) aimed at the cramping muscles could work?
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Re: Leg cramps after long runs [gnat1001] [ In reply to ]
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snail
Sep 30, 19 14:42
Post #3 of 14 (1805 views)
I’ve had this problem in a couple of races (not during training) which I’ve attributed to fatigue of the leg muscles and under training. If there are nutrition solutions, I’d be keen on hearing this so I’ll be following this thread ...
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Re: Leg cramps after long runs [gnat1001] [ In reply to ]
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NordicSkier
Sep 30, 19 16:30
Post #4 of 14 (1773 views)
Run more.

Everyone is looking for some magic bullet nutrition solution but really you need to train more, train more consistently and do it for a long period of time.
Also relevant: the "salt" thread today.
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Re: Leg cramps after long runs [gnat1001] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir
Sep 30, 19 16:58
Post #5 of 14 (1757 views)
For the marathon, the most likely culprit is insufficient weekly mileage. How many mpw were you running?

For those that just 'want to finish' and are training <35mpw, the long runs before race day take on an outsized importance, as there's just not enough weekly mileage to prepare the legs properly otherwise.

Note that serious triathletes doing lots of bike/swim can get away with less miles in run training, but typically they are doing a lot of bike training.
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Re: Leg cramps after long runs [gnat1001] [ In reply to ]
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tri_kid
Sep 30, 19 18:13
Post #6 of 14 (1730 views)
I don't know what kind of stretching you do before or during your runs, but what helps me is I run about 3k, then stop for 5-10 minutes and do some leg stretches. Mostly straight leg kicks, quad stretches, calve stretches, maybe some karaoke. On longer runs, I might repeat those stretches if the legs are feeling tight. My legs always feel really relaxed after I do that.
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Re: Leg cramps after long runs [gnat1001] [ In reply to ]
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nealhe
Sep 30, 19 19:35
Post #7 of 14 (1708 views)
Hello gnat1001 and All,

Leg cramps run in my family (pun) and while usually fatigue is the issue .... after the fact for relief compression tights help so you don't end up jumping out of bed all night with a cramp .... also my legs feel better next day (sleeping with tights).

I have not tried running in tights (or calf sleeves) but it might be worth a shot.

2XU work great.

Also be careful that the bed covers are not tight or heavy on your feet and pull your feet toward a pointed toe position.

Magnesium citrate rather than magnesium oxide tablets can help too.

I have tried pickle juice and some commercial products but without much effect (and I wanted to believe).
Cheers, Neal

+1 mph Faster
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Re: Leg cramps after long runs [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]
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spockman
Sep 30, 19 20:08
Post #8 of 14 (1680 views)
NordicSkier wrote:
Run more.

Everyone is looking for some magic bullet nutrition solution but really you need to train more, train more consistently and do it for a long period of time.
Also relevant: the "salt" thread today.

Yes. We had all sorts of kids get leg cramps in age group swimming when we asked too much of certain muscles.
They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: Leg cramps after long runs [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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Wild Horse
Oct 1, 19 3:54
Post #9 of 14 (1627 views)
lightheir wrote:
For the marathon, the most likely culprit is insufficient weekly mileage. How many mpw were you running?

For those that just 'want to finish' and are training <35mpw, the long runs before race day take on an outsized importance, as there's just not enough weekly mileage to prepare the legs properly otherwise.

Note that serious triathletes doing lots of bike/swim can get away with less miles in run training, but typically they are doing a lot of bike training.


This. I can race well to half distance on 7 hours/wk with lots of intensity and a few long bikes and runs. On this volume, my race plan must include a hard swim and bike, because I WILL lock-up a hamstring at run mile 8 and have to drop to a shuffle. I should either run more or stick to short course.
Last edited by: Wild Horse: Oct 1, 19 4:06
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Re: Leg cramps after long runs [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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gnat1001
Oct 1, 19 5:25
Post #10 of 14 (1590 views)
lightheir wrote:
For the marathon, the most likely culprit is insufficient weekly mileage. How many mpw were you running?

For those that just 'want to finish' and are training <35mpw, the long runs before race day take on an outsized importance, as there's just not enough weekly mileage to prepare the legs properly otherwise.

Note that serious triathletes doing lots of bike/swim can get away with less miles in run training, but typically they are doing a lot of bike training.

This sounds like the culprit to me. 6 weeks ago my long runs were only 8 to 10 miles. I've been steadily increasing my weekly mileage and was at 34 last week (5,7,5,17). I've been incorporating some stretching and added additional salt intake. Do you think adding some bike training would be beneficial?
Quote Reply
Re: Leg cramps after long runs [gnat1001] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir
Oct 1, 19 7:57
Post #11 of 14 (1552 views)
gnat1001 wrote:
lightheir wrote:
For the marathon, the most likely culprit is insufficient weekly mileage. How many mpw were you running?

For those that just 'want to finish' and are training <35mpw, the long runs before race day take on an outsized importance, as there's just not enough weekly mileage to prepare the legs properly otherwise.

Note that serious triathletes doing lots of bike/swim can get away with less miles in run training, but typically they are doing a lot of bike training.


This sounds like the culprit to me. 6 weeks ago my long runs were only 8 to 10 miles. I've been steadily increasing my weekly mileage and was at 34 last week (5,7,5,17). I've been incorporating some stretching and added additional salt intake. Do you think adding some bike training would be beneficial?


It's going to be hard to 'race' a marathon with that low a mileage. Matt Dixon of purplepatch is an advocate of adding a lot of biking to compensate for less run mileage, but I actually have no idea how he structures that for the marathon specifically.

Keep in mind that with <35mpw, you are at significant injury risk on the marathon, so be careful. Your long runs (vital for low mileage marathoners) are 50%+ of your weekly mileage, which is risky. It would be better overall to ramp up to 50mpw gradually and then start adding graduated long runs.

Buy a marathon book, almost any of them and check out the plans. You'll benefit. At your low mileage, there is no nutritional fix or strength/stretching tricks that will solve the late-game cramping.
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Re: Leg cramps after long runs [gnat1001] [ In reply to ]
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michael Hatch
Oct 1, 19 8:37
Post #12 of 14 (1524 views)
Most of the common fixes have been suggested, and I have subscribed to them all at various times. And some work, for me.

For years I have watched videos of "good runners" and their mechanics and nothing I tried really improved me, then I saw a video, (which I won't even insult you by showing, which led me to a video) that changed my thinking. I tried changing my running style slightly to match. I'm a lousy runner, so just about anything could be an improvement.

https://www.youtube.com/...ZNWFaVymhDfa6nqHmitY

This guy appears to be running easily, with practically no leg lift, very little forward stride, no bounce, and a fast turnover (my best guess was at or above 180). I tried in my own turtle like way to run in a similar fashion. While I won't be setting any records, it lowered my HR, increased my speed (about 40sec a Km for comfortable IM pace) and left me without muscle problems. It takes me from no hope to BQ speed. Without cramping issues.

If you check out the speed clock, this guy is running a 2:42 (slightly over 15kph) and that's quick.
Like most AG'ers, if I get to 60% of a pro pace, I'm doing OK in my book.

Of course, I may be full of crap.
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Re: Leg cramps after long runs [michael Hatch] [ In reply to ]
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gnat1001
Oct 1, 19 11:34
Post #13 of 14 (1491 views)
michael Hatch wrote:
Most of the common fixes have been suggested, and I have subscribed to them all at various times. And some work, for me.

For years I have watched videos of "good runners" and their mechanics and nothing I tried really improved me, then I saw a video, (which I won't even insult you by showing, which led me to a video) that changed my thinking. I tried changing my running style slightly to match. I'm a lousy runner, so just about anything could be an improvement.

https://www.youtube.com/...ZNWFaVymhDfa6nqHmitY

This guy appears to be running easily, with practically no leg lift, very little forward stride, no bounce, and a fast turnover (my best guess was at or above 180). I tried in my own turtle like way to run in a similar fashion. While I won't be setting any records, it lowered my HR, increased my speed (about 40sec a Km for comfortable IM pace) and left me without muscle problems. It takes me from no hope to BQ speed. Without cramping issues.

If you check out the speed clock, this guy is running a 2:42 (slightly over 15kph) and that's quick.
Like most AG'ers, if I get to 60% of a pro pace, I'm doing OK in my book.

Of course, I may be full of crap.


I'm not really looking to increase my speed but obviously wouldn't complain if it happens. Lowering my heart rate would be nice since I tend to run in zone 5 for most of my long runs.

When you started modifying your running like the guy you posted, were you mostly just trying to match the leg lift and turnover? My cadence is usually around 165. (screenshot attached)


Last edited by: gnat1001: Oct 1, 19 11:38
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Re: Leg cramps after long runs [gnat1001] [ In reply to ]
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michael Hatch
Oct 1, 19 11:56
Post #14 of 14 (1483 views)
Yes.
Reduce leg lift and increased cadence.

For me there was a lot less effort in the stride and only ( according to the Garmin) a minimal loss of distance per stride.
The reduced effort was such that I could run breathing through my nose (I don't but I can). The reduced effort also reduced fluid loss and heat.
The increased cadence gave me the slightly added speed as a bonus. Mind you, I'm only running slightly below 10min miles and my HR ave is 122 with cadence about 170.

Hope you find something that works.
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