We'll just agree to disagree.

~400ft difference over 26.2mi is hugely difference than 5000' difference over same distance.

But that's just my take on it.

ETA: I dont think anyone classifies Boston as a "downhill" race in the context that we are discussing using extreme "downhill" races. Yes Boston is invalid for any records, but it's generally not particularly thought of as an easy race as you seem to suggest.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

And this is exactly why I don’t believe that a BQ is that meaningful anymore. It’s too bad that this race can have such qualifiers. Kona is a far different story as you have to compete in the same conditions to get in. I would think that Boston can fix this by certifying one race in every country, two or 3 in big countries, and one race per state in the US,. That would give prestige back to the race.

Winning times for that downhill race don’t seem super fast though, i think at a certain point running downhill is hard if it’s too steep.

Don’t do it. Running liek any sport is something you should do to challenge yourself. There are always goals you may not be able to achieve because you cannot put in the time to train, are physically too limited etc. There is so many things most of us can do to improve our performance like working on our sleep patterns, optimizing our nutrition, training plans and so on. No reason to harm your body by taking performance enhancing drugs.

I couldn’t be proud of anything I achieved while on peds. I am sure you’d feel the same. It isn’t a victory over yourself if you are taking a short cut. Do whatever you want, but don’t ask for somebodies blessing. You won’t get it and you shouldn’t ask for it.

Winning time are not super fast because of competition. I think these event draw people who are 10-15 minutes slower than BQ standard. If you are comfortably faster than a BQ - no reason to sign up for these.

No reason to harm your body by taking performance enhancing drugs. //

If you want to contribute to a thread, please read more than the title, maybe even a few responses too!... (-;

Bought the VP Next % and raced a half marathon this weekend. Increased my PR by 1 min from 2 years ago. The shoes are really impressive. Mostly how soar I am not. Just a smidge of forward lean and you can feel the shoe engage and propel you forward.

And the debate starts (about whether or not the shoes are faster).

What was your time for the 1/2?

There’s no doubt in my mind. If you doubt them go trial or buy a pair. It’s very convincing experience. I could literally lean in and feel my pace pick up. Curious how many guys will have them on Kona as everyone at the front of the WC marathons had them in Dubai, it’s for a reason besides sponsorship dollars.

Again doubt any of that, go try them.

I ran a 1:29:25

That debates been settled by everyone who's used them

You're only cheating yourself.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

I felt great. I put disc wheels on my bike, trained hard, was right in the mix of being able to push myself the whole race and finished with a smile and sense of satisfaction of breaking through 1:30.

Everyone around me has disc wheels (thanks whomever gave that analogy to VP) so am good with my result. Appreciate the support.

I totally disagree. I have many friends who are good athletes and it would still be very difficult for them to qualify for Boston. I told them how important mileage is and some of them take me up on that. Trouble is injury when taking up the high mileage too quickly. I'm an old runner and I still could qualify for Boston pretty much any year I want, but after 5 Bostons, I figured that was enough and never ran another after 2000. However, my first BQ was pretty damn hard and I'd never discount the effort I put in to do it.

As far as a KQ, I've only tried a couple of times and not nearly the effort of my running years. Maybe one last shot next year when I age up.

Back to the OP, I feel if you want to spend the money on shoes do it. However, those downhill races aren't as easy as you think. I have friends who toasted their quads on downhill marathons and never tried again. Flat races like Chicago feel easier to me.

I don’t wear these shoes but I’m curious how anyone is cheating themselves or others by paying for them and wearing them in a race?? Serious question as I don’t know the answer....have they been banned or do they violate any rules by wearing them?

If they have not been banned, then help me understand how buying/wearing them is any different than someone buying the $15k bike or $2,500 wheels to make them go faster on the bike or buying the fastest wetsuit available to make their swim faster in a wetsuit legal race?

Would you like a cookie?

Yawn....The point is I am reasonably talented and cannot break 3 hours in a marathon. Yet the yahoos on here will tell you that breaking 3 hours in a marathon is a joke. Sorry if you feel threatened by someone marginally talented.

Not threatened, just always find it funny for people to specifically boast about their accomplishments instead of just saying "as someone who is reasonably talented, I cannot break 3 hours in the marathon"

With respect, what does someone describing them as 'reasonably talented' really mean? The first thing most people here on ST would ask is for them to back that statement up with numbers. Personally I do find one target compared to others interesting.

ETA I'd actually be interested in more numbers - the olympic or ironman splits, for instance. But completely understand if that poster doesn't want to give trolls here a stick to beat them with.

Oh grow up. I've been on here for 6 years and long ago learned that there are plenty of people on here way more talented than me. If you think that is boastful I'd hate to see what you think of someone with real talent.

Also, Steve, I received 3 email notifications from ST saying you've replied to my post. The first two replies were deleted. So how about you grow some balls and stand by whatever it is you actually want to say. OR don't and just leave me alone.

I just kept quoting the posts wrong, which was my reason for deleting them, Mr. Tough Guy. I just prefer people have a shred of humility when talking about their results. " On a legit course on a hot day I went 2:00:20 in an Olympic distance". Who says something like that without looking to boast about themself.

Also if you were "in 3:02 shape" then you can go sub-3 in a marathon. Minor tweaks in training and race day execution and there's no reason 2 minutes cant be shed.

Aj I got your point and appreciated you saying ~hey it’s hard and I am not slow either, gives some perspective. I would have just said yes please send me a cookie.

All of those things (shoes and course selection) are perfectly legal and, in my opinion, are just smart tactics. Would you hesitate to use a better shoe in a triathlon? No! Why is a marathon any different?

If he said he was talented and hasn't broken 3, he'd be asked, "define talented." So he pre-empted it with his credentials. From everything I've read on the tri forum, ajt is a solid contributor, and nowhere near a braggart.