So am I drumming up how dangerous it is, or not?

Just checking?

Cus that's the thing I think I have to laugh at. We have state after state now creating stricter "hands free" laws for drivers. This isn't even for car v car. This is simply car v car so EVERYONE is more safer.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Not saying what your area is like, but as far as here, yes. Less dangerous than driving our roads for sure. I know far more DRIVERS killed by drunk drivers than cyclists killed. Not even close here, as wisconsin has a huge alcohol problem they seem to refuse to address. Texting is bad, but our roads seem to have a far less death rate than the couches people die on every day.

Reactive vs proactive approach. Which as I said to Thom, I dont need to wait til I'm dead for me and others to know it's kinda dangerous out there (your admitting texting is bad).

ETA: I love the garmin varia, been using it for 3 years. Love that it syncs with my athlete's garmins and suddenly the group of 4-6 all get the "beep" of the car closing in notification.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Brooks.

You're a science based guy. It's not hard to look up the stats on cycling deaths. Annual deaths have fluctuated between 600 and 900 per year since 1975. It was 800-900 in the 70s,80s, and 90s. There was a lull in the late 90s and early 2000s where it dropped into the high 600-700s. In the 201x it's back into the 800s.

Back in the 70s it was about even between urban and rural areas. In 2017 it was 75% urban. The trend has been towards more urban and less rural. Obviously, that varies from state to state.

A significant portion occur after dark, amd/or the cyclist was legally intoxicated.

So, I don't know where you live or where you ride. Major metro streets are certainly less safe. Conversely, rural is more safe compared to 30-50 years ago.

You can, of course further refine this by state... And probably by major metro areas. I haven't bothered to try.

Great info and pretty much reflected here in my area. Pretty safe, but like any untimely thing, such as the recent deaths in swimming in tris, broadcast with vigor when it happens. Sadly, many use to as ammo to stop from doing an activity. I feel anything that has NO risk, sure as hell doesn't provide much satisfaction.

Tom,

I dont need actual deaths to know that more and more motorists are driving distracted. Is that not a fair assessment? I drive ~ 1 hr a day to and from the pool/practices and see drivers frequently on their phone. I dont need to wait for them to run someone over so that it becomes a *stat*. I hear Gary admitting that texting is bad in Wisconsin but his state is "low" on cycling deaths. I dont need to wait for a rash of deaths to realize, "this may be a bit of a risk in our society now". So I'm pushing back on this idea that somehow it's nothing to see here. That makes no sense to me when we now have 48 states + DC with "no texting" laws, and by my google search 20 states + DC with "hands free" laws.

As I said, I'm not fear mongoring to going all in on indoor cycling. Actually I've said, when that day comes, let's just pack up the bike in a box and send it and all my gear to some charity. What I have done is over the years has changed my riding style. And I'm not alone in that, and I know many have that aren't in *my* bubble either.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I was admitting that the drinking os the major issue here. Texting is bad, but when we see a severe injury here, it's almost always under the influence. 5 time OWI drivers are still getting popped. I may be in the minority, but I'll still ride outside, swim open water by myself, run alone without a cell phone, swim with dolphins that were sharks and race alone. I like walking the tightrope..... A life without risks......lifetime movies, netflix and a stale inside air have little interest from me.

States pass all kinds of laws whether they are backed by facts or not. "what the people want, the people get." so to speak. So, I don't use media (traditional or social) or politics to base my decisions on.

For the record, I'm not accusing you of fear mongering. I was merely pointing out that there are sources for the data (other than media and politics), and giving a general summary at the national level.

I wasn't trying to tell you what you should think.

If you ride in or through urban areas to get to a rural route, then I certainly would give pause to that exposure. We all see the same things in urban driving. That does not necessarily reflect the rural environment.

Rural riding in general is more safe than it ever has been, by a significant margin.

I'm not saying live in a bubble. I was simply pushing back on your stance that this whole issue of bike safety is "overblown" and some media/lawyer hype. That makes zero sense to me with the legistation that is being pushed with states more and more with driving laws. We've had cell phones for many years but not until texting/apps became a thing about what 15 years ago have, and now have I ever heard states create anti-texting (distraction) laws.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

See Tom's stats...... facts don't seem to align with the Bike Law and other groups hysteria..... I realize it's a worthy issue, but these groups seem to have a very large vested interest that they use hysteria to obtain clients.

Apparently 80% of the US population lives in "urban" environment. So what does that mean? How many of those 80% can ride right from their front door and have significant margin of safety?Probaly not a lot.

So what was my whole point in this discussion? That many people don't have that "utopia" spot where they can find tranquility very easily. It's a lot of maneuvering and/or different types of riding that keeps us fit. "wasting" time driving to/from the safe riding spots (for me it's on average 2 rides a week of roughly ~1hr/ride; 3rd or 4th ride each week for me is done at the local arena that is basically local arena only traffic, and obviously dont ride their on a game/concert day). This isn't something that happens only in my bubble. This is how people across the country behave in order to find good safe riding routes.

ETA: So insert indoor zwifting that can make the trainer less boring and you'll get more people doing that. Insert just an "scary close call" (that's not a stat) and you suddenly get someone spooked to take up more gravel or more group riding only, or only riding specific routes. Gone is their "tranquility". And that I've seen and heard from people all across the country, stats be damned.

One of the fastest selling bikes at our tri shop is actually a gravel bike. It's amazing how many we've sold in the past 15 months considering we are a "tri shop".

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I have been dreading the return to my trainer for the winter, and this week it finally came (the rain finally returned to the west coast, and I'm not really a fan of having to clean up my bike after a rainy ride). And I must say that it was a ton more fun than I anticipated (I was loving riding outside) - it was so pleasant being able to fully concentrate on my intervals without worrying about traffic/stop lights/etc.

I am actually fairly excited to get back into my winter zwifting routine now!

I’m excited to do a lot more Zwift running and level up a bit. I’ve noticed they added more workouts too.

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

ROFL.....that was so good!!!:)

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"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"

+1

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"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"