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Position 2.0 - critique if you have time
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Edit: please refer to post 19 for video and position 2.0.

Hope everyone is safe in the hurricane. It is currently hitting us up in the east coast of Canada, but so far so good.

Anyway, i got this bike yesterday. 2020 felt ia advanced disc with force Axs etap.


I only had time to ride it 20min last night at dusk (with two pr’s without trying). It was rideable but not set up at all. So today i am fiddling with initial position indoors.

This is my first dedicated tri bike btw, and i am kind of going at it alone. The kids are helping me photograph in my living room as we kill time.

I am 170cm tall with a 30inch inseam. This is a size 51. Force etap ia’s came with a mis-specced cranks compared to every other ia felt sells. Normally you would get a 165mm crank. This has 170. A 165 has been ordered and will arrive Monday. My saddle feels a touch high, but i think the 165 will make it perfect, so it stays for now.

Felt generically says i should fit a 48/51/54, so after some research, i got the 51. Strike the 54 off the list, because standover clearance is tight on a 51. A 48 would have been fine also, but i would be looking for reach, so i opted against it.

Here is v1.1. Bars tilted up a bit and shortened from the initial maiden voyage. Shrugging a bit i think. Yeah i am in underwear. I wear lycra in public so i am beyond that. And yes, my leg is holding me up on a coffee table.



Here is me trying to stretch myself out a bit in v1.2. The aerobars are about 2cm forwards and i moved the armrest mounts in front of the aerobar mounts. This setup is what you see in the bike only shot above.



I must say that the Felt Bayonet 3.1 is pretty fantastic.

I will post updates as they come, but i am open to feedback. I realize on trainer video is best (in proper bike clothes), so that is next now that i feel I have a decent starting point. However, i wont get too fussed until the 165mm cranks go on monday.
Last edited by: Rocket_racing: Sep 13, 19 20:45
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Re: Position 1.0 - critique if you have time [Rocket_racing] [ In reply to ]
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Post a video when you get a chance.

Have you ever ridden on that saddle before?
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Re: Position 1.0 - critique if you have time [Rocket_racing] [ In reply to ]
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Post a Video, wear your kit and make sure entire body is visible :)
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Re: Position 1.0 - critique if you have time [Rocket_racing] [ In reply to ]
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who cares about the Fit, that dazzle camo is BITCHIN!!

srlsy, though, yes for wearing kit so we can see you better.
Bring armpads back 2cm...

Anne Barnes
ABBikefit, Ltd
FIST/SICI/FIST DOWN DEEP
X/Y Coordinator
abbikefit@gmail.com
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Re: Position 1.0 - critique if you have time [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
Post a video when you get a chance.

Have you ever ridden on that saddle before?

The saddle is Totally new to me. Junk over the front is what i learned generically, but i am open to insights. I need saddle time for sure. Power out now so the trainer may need to wait.
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Re: Position 1.0 - critique if you have time [ABarnes] [ In reply to ]
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Damn you regarding the arm-pads. Putting them in-front of the aerobar clamps took a lot of work. Hahaha.

But i have nothing but time at the moment.
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Re: Position 1.0 - critique if you have time [Rocket_racing] [ In reply to ]
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yes, but, can't at all see where you are sitting, or what your BB to nose of saddle is. So don't move them yet :)

Anne Barnes
ABBikefit, Ltd
FIST/SICI/FIST DOWN DEEP
X/Y Coordinator
abbikefit@gmail.com
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Re: Position 1.0 - critique if you have time [ABarnes] [ In reply to ]
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ABarnes wrote:
Bring armpads back 2cm...

Woah there... hold your horses ;)

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Position 1.0 - critique if you have time [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:
ABarnes wrote:
Bring armpads back 2cm...

Woah there... hold your horses ;)

Actually, i think i am now in the dead zone of positioning for the pads if i were to bring them back, so they need to stay unless i also shorten my aerobars again to return to position v1.1. They currently support the meat of my elbows.
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Re: Position 1.0 - critique if you have time [ABarnes] [ In reply to ]
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The photo of the bike only is where everything is (as of this writing). So the saddle nose is a bit behind the bb. As i am new to this, i was reluctant to shift too much weight up front. I am used to clip ons.

Mind you, my issue shifting weight up front was probably because the seat was too far back. But i also felt it was tilted the wrong way, so i started with a little nose down (seen in picture)

My fear of saddle forward is that i will then want an even lower front, and i am now bottomed out as it is. That means a 48 frame, or ahem... a different frame. The risk of not starting with a fit bike...

But i am getting ahead of myself. storm is over. My bike is 12s so wont work on my neo freehub, and i dont have the adaptors to put it on my kinetic (thought i did).

Need outdoors seat time anyway. I bet it is day and night better than prior. I will see if i can borrow up rollers or something.
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Re: Position 1.0 - critique if you have time [Rocket_racing] [ In reply to ]
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Nothing you've posted is of any use. Try again while you're pedaling at race pace...preferably after several minutes settled into your position. Do not bring those arm pads back!

Jim Manton / ERO Sports
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Re: Position 1.0 - critique if you have time [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Jim@EROsports wrote:
Do not bring those arm pads back!

LOL!

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Position 1.0 - critique if you have time [Rocket_racing] [ In reply to ]
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Think this was a sticky at one point but got unstickied.

You'll get better feedback if you can follow this advice.. sounds like a bind but worth taking some time over. Good posts further down the thread from James (jkhayc) and Dave (Findingfreestlye).


https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ique_video_P6927603/
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Re: Position 1.0 - critique if you have time [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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HOLD THE HORSES

Anne Barnes
ABBikefit, Ltd
FIST/SICI/FIST DOWN DEEP
X/Y Coordinator
abbikefit@gmail.com
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Re: Position 1.0 - critique if you have time [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Like this post very much.

Why do FIST fitters and Slowman et al still harp on about bringing the pads back, elbows at 90 deg etc etc. It’s utter junk.
Not aero and not that comfy either!
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Re: Position 1.0 - critique if you have time [TriByran] [ In reply to ]
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I believe what Dan recommends has been misinterpreted over the years. So many believe the upper arms should be 90 degrees to the horizon, which is far too little reach. Dan does not write or teach this. Unless I'm mistaken, and it's quite possible as I haven't looked in quite some time, Dan recommends around 90 degrees from hip to shoulder to elbow. This would not result in the upper arms being perpendicular to the ground, but at an angle with the elbow in front of the shoulder. This results in better skeletal support.

Now, I would blame Retul a bit for this as they teach the silly plank assessment to determine reach which is ridiculous. If your fitter does this, and bases your position on said test, you're not likely to have a good result. There are three issues we see most often, one of them is clients coming in with too little reach to the aero bars.

Jim Manton / ERO Sports
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Re: Position 1.0 - critique if you have time [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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As i sort out a way to video myself (need to order an axle adaptor) i have been fooling with positions. Currently in the mantis, or a variation of it. Very motivating to keep in the tuck position when you have your hands as a target.

This position brings my elbows in-front of my shoulders for sure. I found i had to increase my reach to avoid shoulder discomfort in the position. It was a slight shift, but a huge difference in comfort. The position also stabilized my saddle position (i was sliding forward).

Do you folks promote rotating helmets back on the head to optimize aero also? I have an aerohead (actually, my head is not aero as it is a size large).
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Re: Position 1.0 - critique if you have time [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed!
plank assessment is false test for this.

Angles are something to give a limit to, or a 'target', but it shouldn't by default drive a fit. listen to the rider - if they feel uncomfortable, they is.

all of this, though, is after settling on the saddle and postion 'back there'.

Anne Barnes
ABBikefit, Ltd
FIST/SICI/FIST DOWN DEEP
X/Y Coordinator
abbikefit@gmail.com
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Re: Position 1.0 - critique if you have time [Jim@EROsports] [ In reply to ]
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So this is position 2.0. While awaiting a skewer to mount on a trainer, i have put in about 200kms, and made some adjustments. 170mm cranks (oversized vs every other ia felt sells on a size 51) have been swapped for 165mm.

Here is the bike position. As you can see, I went a bit mantis.


Here i am at the top and bottom of my pedal stroke. My opinion is that the saddle needs to come down. However, i am braking the video rules by peddling at v02max power and cadence... simply because my bike training this fall is focused on shorter tt efforts.





And here is the video. The camerawoman was a bit crooked, but hey, close enough. She probably just wishes i would spend a friday night watching porn like a regular married man, instead of uploading video of my aero position to forums.



Here are my hips. Are they rocking a bit much for a v02max effort? I know you guys like to see race pace, but this will be my race pace for tt this fall.



Finally, lets finish with my frontal profile. I am not a big guy, but i take a size large brain bucket... so getting it out of the way is a priority. I would be comfortable going narrower in the pads. I read that an open space can help some riders.



A few notes:
- 165mm crank now
- i felt my saddle was a bit high, but kept it as i knew a 165mm crank was going on. I had zero issues with the 165 or 170mm crank, but the 165 felt better... maybe it was in my head. I think the saddle needs dropping, possibly edging forward.
- I have done about 150k in the above position. My shoulders can get a bit sore by the end but it is pretty comfortable, especially since i am new to this.
- I have no complaints regarding saddle comfort. No sores, no anything. I tend to shift more on the rivet under the harder efforts.
- Got some pr’s on 3, 5, 10, 20, 30min power Vs my road bike, so i am not losing power.
- i wonder about helmet tilting. Do people tilt the position of a helmet on their head to allow more ideal aero? It is cheating a bit, and i wonder if it harms aero given the face shield is farther away as i tilt it back.
- i get pretty shitty airflow in the helmet this low. I need to lift my head to get the air jet from the top of the visor.
- aerocoach once said in a video that the aerohead performs faster in a mantis position.
- i hunted down some giro gear from a couple years back in “dazzle camo” to match the bike. #carpetmatchesdrapes
- this is the first time i have ever watched myself ride, so i may do a similar analysis with my road bike.

Thanks for insights.
Last edited by: Rocket_racing: Sep 13, 19 19:20
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Re: Position 1.0 - critique if you have time [Rocket_racing] [ In reply to ]
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I am not a fitter but looks pretty good, could lower the saddle a touch. try 4-6mm.

2024: Bevoman, Galveston, Alcatraz, Marble Falls, Santa Cruz
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Re: Position 1.0 - critique if you have time [Rocket_racing] [ In reply to ]
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Hi!
Noticed that you use a cycletrainer with the wheel on. Has anyone tried this bike on the tacx neo 2t? I have the exact same bike, in spatter colour combination, and would like to buy the neo 2t, but have to be sure that it fits.
Tacx say that it has clearance for the disc brake caliper, but since the frame gets narrower, it might hit on the body of the neo.

Anyone tried this combination?

Thanks in advance
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