My vote was for a complete strip and find a way to do a cheap version of Trek vapour coat. I believe someone around here likes to say "aero and light is right" ;)

IMO the point of diminishing returns fell off long before 5 years ago. I’m currently racing on a 2011 Felt B10 and so far as I can tell it’s plenty aero although I don’t and will never have access to a one to one comparison.

I bought it as just a frame on clearance at a LBS and the store fitted it with Ultegra 10 speed and it came with some decent wheels. The base bar is alloy (Felt’s brand) but flat like expensive aftermarket ones with ski bend profile alloy aerobars and incredibly awesome Vision Metron shifters. If I wanted to make the change it’s Di2 ready.

It with fit cost a mere $1500. So in a word no, spending an additional $8500 is just hard to justify. I know I don’t have much data but looking at a machine like this I couldn’t imagine so far as frames and components go gaining a significant amount of speed. Maybe the built in storage might help, but that’s probably more of Convenience. But all in all it’s a really really good bike.

Now if you’re a doctor, or a lawyer... ok then a super bike MIGHT be worth a look. Also I guess for pros and borderline pros looking to make the jump and need every second at any cost. But you can definitely get plenty of speed for a lot less money.

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I still lapped everyone on the couch!

Thanks for that - that looks pretty damn slick, and the ability to raise or lower the bars for a tri or TT fit is also very attractive. The Zipp is an absolute bastard to adjust, by comparison.



Honestly, it isnt so much that I *need* the performance benefit but my OCD and my inner gadget geek will both be a lot happier knowing that i have Nice Kit as i toil to my mid-pack finish :)

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Those who are slower than me suck.
Those who are faster than me dope

Most likely all of the super bikes are faster than a standard P2. That is because the P2 cockpit sucks and the frame's cable routing sucks. However, modify the P2 to improve the cable runs and replace the cockpit, and then you have something similar to the current top end bikes.

I agree with you Jolene There are already some great deals on used triathlon bikes. I've always done a bit of buying and selling online for a profit and I've been checking 5 major cites I often travel too. I've been seeing more and more triathlon bikes being listed for sale. Many are 3-5 year old bikes with something like one, 70.3 on the odometer, and something crazy like 1000 miles on it.


Combining the following, triathlon numbers declining, an aging field slowly dropping the sport, not many new young bloods entering, 3-10 year old triathlon bikes still being fast, triathletes thinning out their stable of bikes, new bikes costing more than a Lexus that only have single watt advantages over previous frames, road bikes being customizable with bars, wheels and a helmet to be almost as fast as a proper triathlon bike, rich guys buying bikes such as a P5X or P3X to give triathlons a go and finding that it isn't their bag... With all those things I think it is going to be a buyer's market for the average guy pretty soon.

I was a bit sad to pass up a P5 with SRAM Red and Quarq Power Meter but I had to since it was too big. There were 2 more P5s in my size that were better kitted out for about $3800 (asking price) but I think there will be plenty to choose from in a year that will be in the $3K range or even less. All this could be for naught though since I could simply stick new bars, brake levers and shifters on my current bike and still be only a few minutes slower. I mean, it is not like I'm going to be on a podium anytime soon.

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

It wasn’t even used it was a leftover. I bought my tri bike from the same shop for a similar deal. Older model Bmc TT03. It was more aero and had a complete 105 crankset and all than many of the low end bikes for the same price. Got that for a cool $1100. Just like my felt never been owned. I can tell you without a doubt having such good experiences with awesome bikes in the past I am definitely going back to that shop. It’s also the only tri specific shop in the area... but they’ve twice treated me well now. By the way if any companies or LBS’s are reading this it’s how you get return customers.

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I still lapped everyone on the couch!

Yeah forreal

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https://www.strava.com/...tes/zachary_mckinney

This will probably muck up your models but my P4 with TriRig Alpha One is faster than my P5-6

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I was going to suggest that actually but it is labour intensive or costly to do. The plastidip is stupid cheap and if it is the P2 I think it is, a can of white will cover the logos and done in 1 hour

I'd agree with this statement. I've gone from an old P2, road bike with aerobars, converted S5, to my Trek SC Gen 2 (bought used 2.5 years ago). I've never spent over 3k and have just been optimising around the Trek over the years. I think things peaked around 2013 around the v.2 of Di2+eTap for shifting. The frames like Felt, Shiv, and Trek, probably provide good enough aero performance as long as you are comfortable. I'll switch out my aerobars to the Speedshop51 for a little extra comfort, but I'm convinced I can't get much more aero than my Trek SC. Disc brakes and possibly a SLIGHTLY cleaner cockpit for an extra 8-9k makes no sense.

If I was starting out clean now, I might try to find a deal (sub 3.5k) at a shop for Cervelo P5/Shiv/Trek. But I think you can build up something fun if the fit is right around a P4/P3 base for about 3k (wheels, power meter, etc...).

Teresa is a great athlete, was impressed with her Cairns win!

I doubt the old frame alone is more aero, but when everything is considered it's the faster setup. At 27:20 they discuss the bike setup. The P3C is by no means optimized; they only had a $1500 (NZ) budget for the whole thing. But it was still >1km/hr faster than the Giant at equivalent power. It's really an interesting video; surprised it hasn't gotten more attention.

All Idea Without The Gear:

If you find a good way to strip carbon let us know. IME it was a royal PITA. I spent many hours on the fork and gave up on the frame. The fork was way too ugly under the paint so I had to paint it anyway.

I used polyurethane (1 part) boat paint. Thinned it ~50/50 with mineral spirits and wiped it on. Easy, and probably better looking than plastidip.

Love to hear stories of people building their own instead of just plopping down a brick of money (I'm just jealously unrich). Talking with either about their rides reveals a lot. I know there are some people who try to put the round peg in the square hole, and they are usually fast as hell. Sometimes people don't have time nor are they interested in building their own. It's all good.
However, I am a tinkerer and love checking out people's whips to get ideas for mine.

Glad you are near a good LBS. My previous LBS screwed up and lost me as a customer. While searching for a new frame, I was changing out a Shimano cassette on my older Specialized and was not really sure, but was told I needed a specific wrench for the disassembly. I looked at the price tag, which showed about $10 so I chucked it in the basket along with the other items I bought. During the change I found that I didn't need the wrench, so I took it back the next day to get a refund. Even though it was still in the package and unused, he wouldn't give me a refund despite me telling him that his mechanic told me that I needed it, which was either a lie, or just wrong. So, I handed him the tool, told him he could keep it. After having spent well over $1000 in there in wheels, tires, tubes, Shimano Dura Ace brakes, 2 helmets, a Wahoo Bolt and more.

Fast forward a month or so later I see a new, but 2-year old frame that I absolutely loved hanging in a shop in my size, along with 2 smaller frames. It was marked as $3900 ($500 cheaper than ordering direct from the manufacturer) so I jokingly said "How about $3600?". I got an immediate "Ok!". I backtracked and said "Let me think about it", knowing I could probably get another $300 or so off. I would have gladly paid the $3900 for it because I thought it was worth it and still do. A week later I went in and left the new shop with the frame and fork, as well as new bars for $3400.

Not only did the previous LBS lose a frame sale, there was a nice orange Eddie Merckx steel frame competing with a Cinelli Vigorelli for my touring bike.

Then I thought "Nah. You know what? I can order it online."

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

This is exactly what I have done with my older P2. I added the TriRig Alpha Classic, Sigma, Omega, moved the cable entry to behind the stem and removed the front derailleur hanger. I believe the improvement get me a lot closer to the newer bikes available. At the time the TriRig Alpha X and One were not available and I am sure I would not have been able to purchase used at the price I did with the Classic.

This was in my signature for awhile but I'll link it here again.

I do miss the simplicity of it and ease of travel but the new rig is pretty fun as well!

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Benjamin Deal - Professional - Instagram - TriRig - Lodi Cyclery
Deals on Wheels - Results, schedule, videos, sponsors

Love the video! Good stuff...I’m building a old P2 1x with powermeter, etap, Alpha One aerobars, and H3+ front and rear disc wheel (likely a Renn) and will be right around $3k.

That is definitely budget! Sweet ride and A+ effort

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The more people I encounter the more I love my cats.

I have wondered how much If anything I am giving away on my Plasma 3 compared to the Plasma 5.

Most comparisons seem to be done with a stock set up.

I have the mechanical geared version but the rear brake has been set up to run through the forks and I run 1x so only the rear mech cable is visible at the front. With a tri rig front brake it is pretty clean up front.

The advantage of the 5 is perhaps more the extra (at little aero cost) storage / hydration options - front bottle, Benton box and the D2Z frame storage box/tacx bottle setup.

For what it’s worth I saw a video from GCN today about super bike vs mid range bike. Highlights are they called a basic $1k brand new alloy bike mid range. Difference is 2% on climbs, 4% on flats. This was done on a road bike. My guess is tri bike to tri bike would be an even smaller difference and once you start talking carbon and even smaller difference.

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I still lapped everyone on the couch!

I suspect tires and tubes were most of that difference...

In the video, the difference was 8/10 seconds for the two riders each on the two different frames on the ~10 min.climb. Supposedly the power output for each of the two runs was "similar" (but no figures were presented). And the anticipated savings was 7 seconds due to about 1.6 kg less weight for the "super" bike. So, almost all of the difference is explainable from the weight difference.

For the test on the flats, probably just throw that data away. Different wheel profiles, maybe different tires/tubes, maybe slightly different body/head positions between the runs. But if you want to look at it: Differences were 12/25 seconds for the two riders each on the two different frames on the 8.5-9 min TT run. Taking the average delta of 18.5 seconds, that's probably the equivalent of 10-15w difference, easily explainable with: 1) wheel depth (maybe 7w), 2) aero profile handlebar (maybe 5w), 3) exposed cables (maybe 3w)

Exactly. Overall I think super bikes aren’t that super. If we started comparing super bikes to what we see everyday on course the difference would be teeny tiny.

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I still lapped everyone on the couch!