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Post deleted by spudone [ In reply to ]
Last edited by: spudone: Aug 16, 19 15:02
Re: Propaganda U - The Government Can't Solve Climate Change [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
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FishyJoe wrote:
True, solar panels and batteries do create pollution. But extracting petro, refining, transporting, storing and burning it isn't entirely clean either. There is also the human cost of all the people fighting over oil and the horrible governments that profit off of oil.

EV's are also more efficient even with the losses in electrical generation and distribution because internal combustion engines are so thermally inefficient.
I hear you, but mining lithium isn't a walk in the park either. Interesting article here: https://www.bloomberg.com/...hium-battery-future/
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Re: Propaganda U - The Government Can't Solve Climate Change [spudone] [ In reply to ]
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spudone wrote:
SH wrote:
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I think most people agree that the private sector is better at innovating...

Leading with this argument would certainly disarm people like the student that made this video, and even disarm the people that defend the video. And yet so few are disarmed this way.

I can only come up with two reasonable explanations (so far)...

1.) Maybe most people don't agree the private sector is better at innovating. or.
2.) Maybe most people likely to take exception to the video don't agree the private sector is better.


There are notable cases where the private sector is/was way behind government. The internet itself would have been mostly impossible if private companies were left to their own devices. Some of you recall back to the early days of AOL / Prodigy / Compuserve / GEnie... all walled gardens, nobody played nice with each other. It took a government project and educational institutions to a) create interoperable protocols and software and b) license them freely. We're once again seeing some of the walled behavior come back nowadays with Facebook locking a big section of the internet behind their logins, Apple's closed ecosystem, etc). Competition often results in companies being intentionally incompatible, whereas government can unify a task.

Encryption also comes to mind although in it was heavily regulated by the U.S. government for many years. But the NSA is generally acknowledged to be about 20 years ahead of the civilian world in cryptography, and it has been that way for decades, even as the regulations were reduced. They recruit the best people, have huge resources, and have a very singular focus. Large corporations have research divisions but they are still loosely tied to profit centers, which aren't the best drivers for pure research.

So these points you're making... are they part of an overall argument against conceding any ground to market economy types that fear the inefficiency of government planned and protected production and pricing?
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Post deleted by spudone [ In reply to ]
Re: Propaganda U - The Government Can't Solve Climate Change [Perseus] [ In reply to ]
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Perseus wrote:
FishyJoe wrote:
True, solar panels and batteries do create pollution. But extracting petro, refining, transporting, storing and burning it isn't entirely clean either. There is also the human cost of all the people fighting over oil and the horrible governments that profit off of oil.

EV's are also more efficient even with the losses in electrical generation and distribution because internal combustion engines are so thermally inefficient.

I hear you, but mining lithium isn't a walk in the park either. Interesting article here: https://www.bloomberg.com/...hium-battery-future/

Seems like nothing compared to the lengths the petro industry has gone to find new sources. And that's not even counting all the wars that have been fought over it.
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Re: Propaganda U - The Government Can't Solve Climate Change [spudone] [ In reply to ]
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3 pages of interesting and reasonable discourse. Bravo LR. Faith mildly restored.

"This ain't no wedding dance, get moving" - SS
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Re: Propaganda U - The Government Can't Solve Climate Change [Perseus] [ In reply to ]
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It really depends where the electricity comes from. ~68 percent comes coal and natural gas plants according the U.S. Energy Information Administration.

I need to get to bed and am not interested in reading right now. What I have read shows a vast improvement in energy consumption with EVs largely because, as you pointed out, 32% of our electricity comes from non coal sources but more importantly the combustion engine is incredibly inefficient.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
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Re: Propaganda U - The Government Can't Solve Climate Change [SH] [ In reply to ]
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1.) Maybe most people don't agree the private sector is better at innovating. or.
2.) Maybe most people likely to take exception to the video don't agree the private sector is better.


I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to make. I think you may have a typo in here.

Either way, I don't give a shit what most people think. Most people are stupid, uninformed, and easily swayed by propaganda that makes them feel tough, like cigarette adds by rugged guys in cowboy hats.

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...runtraining;#1612485
Last edited by: BarryP: Aug 16, 19 18:36
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