General convo. Don't stage the swim where you think a sizable no of your customers might not be able to handle relatively normal conditions.

I agree, I was in wave 8 and the water was fine. The "waves" were consistent and smooth enough that it was easy to time your sighting to hit on top of a wave every time. On the way out to the first buoy I was actually surprised how quickly we got there. While swimming parallel to the waves they were barely noticeable, and on the way in they helped a bit. I admit I'm comfortable in much rougher water having been an ocean rescue lifeguard for 3 years, but unless the waves are really inconsistent (like a washing machine) it shouldn't be a problem.

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That's a very broad and generic definition though.

The whole problem with any type of "open" venues is wind. Whether an ocean venue, open lake venue like this, there's generally "movement" of water whether through wind/current that can happen; and then 2 days later it's flat calm (of course it's like that). If there's no "protection" (ITU Chicago swam inside the breakwater so thus was never going to get super choppy water; ITU Cozumel was changed because of currents; it also changed the distances due to heat) your going to be open to the elements and that's going to create more issues for all involved. Any time it's windy, it creates chop and it creates problem for not even the racers but the support staff, etc. I think it was the last few days the swim venue wasn't shut down by the RD but by the "powers to be" (US Coast Guard).


Maybe US AG Nats needs to simply look at current races and piggy back off of it and create the "nationals" at that venue (like it does for pretty much every other USAT nationals). It seems like the past few editions they are simply "new venues". Why not just do what they do like at most other "nationals", simply tag on to another event that's already shown success.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I see where you're coming from, if you don't know anything other than a pool or small lake and you read a statement like that you believe it. But for someone with both ocean and river rescue experience, if they really said that then I'm speechless. The conditions today were not too rough for any type of rescue I'm familiar with. It would have been trivially easy for anyone trained to make a jet ski, kayak, paddle board, or swimming rescue. In fact, there were plenty of boats and kayaks in the water while we were swimming, so I don't know what they were talking about.

Yes the pictures posted by the other poster of the conditions were an accurate representation. The only effect they had was equivalent to having a run or bike course with a good climb in it, people who excel in those conditions get a small advantage and everyone else has to suck it up. I don't think the argument about people dying in the swim is valid in this case since that happens frequently regardless of conditions. I have been in races on a small lake with no water movement at all where a top athlete died. It is a real risk that exists for even the best of us; but the conditions, to my knowledge, aren't generally a contributing factor.

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Litigation...CYA

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Be Uncommon

Litigation...CYA


Utter nonsense...

I don’t think anyone who raced today complained about the swim. USAT did what they felt was in everyone’s best interest based on discussion with safety teams and coast guard patrol in the water as well as forecasted wind conditions after the start. It’s not USAT’s fault the wind laid down during the event, especially after last year when it got worse as the morning went on and everyone did complain last year.

I watched one of the swim safety kayak guys get tipped over paddling from shore out to the last turn buoy and have to walk his boat back to shore to empty it before the first swim wave started. Many of the paddle board crew struggled to get past the break and not get dumped into the lake. And that was after they announced the shortened swim and moved the course buoys.

But as usual this thread has devolved in typical Slowtwitch fashion and turned into a dick measuring contest from one guy who can swim in the worst conditions who thinks 2500 others should be able to swim in surf break conditions that he can handle. News flash - even though you qualify to be here, this isn’t Kona. It’s not that hard to make AGNC. Hell I can sign up tomorrow for next year in Milwaukee and not spend one minute in the water between now and the start next year.

I swam at 8:07 a.m. yesterday and watched the early waves of athletes the swells were minor. I swam maybe 30 seconds slower than I would have if it was glass. There was absolutely no reason to shorten the swim unless you are a non swimmer in which case do a duathlon and leave triathlons to triathletes. It’s not just “wussified” it’s an abolition of the sport.

That is not a fair assessment of this discussion, if the conditions were legitimately bad (such as last year on Friday for the practice swim or on Sunday for the Sprint) I would fully expect them to cancel the swim despite the fact that it would be a huge advantage for me. What I think is worth debating is whether consistent, smooth, 1-2 foot swells are sufficiently rough to cancel or shorten a swim.

I understand that a race director has to make that choice before the race starts, nothing is certain, but I think it's not unreasonable to let the organizer know when they got it wrong. That's how people learn, diagnose mistakes and make informed choices next time. But that's not what my comments were about, I was commenting on the actual result. The conditions that actually did exist in the real world were clearly enough to make some people uncomfortable, but I would strongly disagree that the actual conditions were too rough to hold a full swim. Many people would be intimidated, but if they've prepared adequately for a 1500M open water swim they would have quickly settled in and realized it wasn't as bad as they feared.

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 What I think is worth debating is whether consistent, smooth, 1-2 foot swells are sufficiently rough to cancel or shorten a swim.

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But I don't think it's just that. Like if we want to have a full fair discussion, I think we have to acknowledge that there are all kinds of factors in play. The fact that they have to make a decision 30 mins- 1 hr before the "race" and thus waves may start 2 hrs after the decision and it be "calm" by then. Or that someone died at this very venue last year and *that* likely is factored into the discussion (it's easy to say it shouldn't matter from behind your keyboard where your words/thoughts have zero impact on the lives of people; whole different thing if you are in that meeting have that real world discussion). And that we live in 2019, where "accountability" imo is just less and less, and so we have to factor to the lowest factor (CYA).

So if you want to say they got it wrong, fair enough. But how many people have actually done RD for events except 1 (monty) that is commenting on this thread, and when's the last time he did RD'ing? So you talk about making informed choices- I just think you have to understand how that "informed" choice came about.


It's why I said this is the new reality imo. Cancelled/modified swims will only continue in our sport when we think they shouldn't *unfortunately*. ETA: So it's the people who think it was a bad call that must adapt; it's really us that must adapt to a lower bar. That's the real reality and sad truth. We are a sport that is getting played to the lowest bar now. And again what's funny is that with every cancelled swim, it only makes it *easier* to cancel the next one, and just a little easier for athletes to "not train up" for the swim because well "they'll cancel it anyways".

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

The swim was great fun today. It was what the organizers imagined when they chose the Edgewater site. Nearly all the tris I do now are variations of a time-start start so it was a thrill to share some contact and get a nice draft in a wave start with my peers.

I completely agree. I think a lot of people that aren't as confident with swells breathed a sigh of relief when they saw the water this morning.