You know who else doesn't regret doping? Merckx and over half the people that have ridden in the ProTour.

I don't do the Twitter thing but someone sent me a link to a Lance tweet the other day and I noticed his bio reads "Father of 5, Founder of WEDŪ, partner at NEXT Ventūres, endurance junkie, and 7 MJ’s."

We should ask them

1) Do you regret doping ?
2) Do you regret paying off competitors to win races ?
3) Do you regret paying off the UCI to hide test results ?
4) Do you regret financially destroying or attempting to destroy people's livelihood to protect your cheating ?
5) Do you regret perjuring yourself when testifying under oath ?

Nobody else did that, so I guess no, they don't have regrets.

If everyone was doing #1, it was a level playing field. If everyone was doing #1 except one guy who was doing it all, benefiting financially from it and then using those proceeds to further distance himself from the rest, that isn't a level playing field. Its funny because in one episode Bruynel went on about how much advantage teams with big budgets, buses, private planes....have.

I can completely understand how a guy like him could go down a path. I can see how hard it would be to correct that path. But once it's all out there don't have the nerve to say you didn't do anything worse than next guy and it was a level playing field. It wasn't. He didn't win those 7 Tours.

And there must have been some good trash talking along the way. At what point did George drop the "see you in the douches" line on Lance?

Yes, George won, by a few minutes. They had to ride back to where they do the podcast, carry the bike up the stairs (it's on the second story w/a patio) and tap the WEDU flag. Stunning course and they have some great drone shots.

Love the podcast, especially when you can watch it. Lance is an ass, but would he have been so good if he wasn't? I don't think so (sort of like Steve Jobs always had a chip on his shoulder which drove him). I'm waiting for my "See you in the douches" t-shirt to arrive.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Finally! 3 pages of pointless arguing and we finally get a definitive answer to the question! Thanks!

By the way, what exactly does the "see you in the douches" line mean? I don't think of anything endurance sport related when I read "douches"

This. ^^ A few years ago, Phil wouldn't even speak Lance's name on the air. Now Phil is helping to secure his replacement.

"See you in the showers" - V. Ekimov used to say that when he put the throttle down and rode away from whomever he was with. Douches = showers

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Just think, and the difference between being the best and being straight mediocre rides on that fine edge of deciding whether to throw Landis a bone at Tour of California or to rub his nose in shit. That decision was his idiot hubris and vindictiveness and what did him in, right there.

NBC did a long segment on Indurain during this years broadcast. A disciple of Conconi, the mentor of Ferrari. No doubt he was topped to the gills with orange juice. But, he never got caught. So he's the best. He would have thrown Landis a bone.

Isn't it a reference to the showers at Roubaix velodrome?

I think so - said by Ekimov.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Thanks for sharing!

Re: Indurain, see below...
http://www.cyclingnews.com/...ere-conconi-clients/

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"Discipline is the highest of all virtues. Only so may strength and desire be counterbalanced and the endeavors of man bear fruit."
Nikos Kazantzakis, The Rock Garden

Doping in the Tour has been going on since 1903, and continued ever since. Jacques Anqutiel staged a protest when they tried to ban Amphetemines. Everyone admitted it. Cocaine eye drops due to 17 hour stages, everything you can think of. From 60s to 80s you only got a time penalty most of the time for a doping offense. There are two great books on the Tour by Bill McGann, probably the best documented history of the race.

Anyway, I was a Lance hater from the beginning, it was so obvious he was doping. Then after he confessed, I became a fan. The podcasts are good, though I have to admit that the real gem of The Move podcast is Johann Bruyneel and the preview show. That guy knows his stuff when it comes to what is going on. Lance comes across as almost ignorant of everything, and his ego started to come out this year with George being on the show, that was a bit of a turn off.

Johann predicted George would win by the way.

That's a nice touch ... sort of a CX element?

****

In case anyone gives a shit, I still wear my Livestrong Band

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=4038970#p4038970




WOW!!!

Fifteen years now, and ten since Dad passed

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Thanks Cathy

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Right, because MOST everyone cheats, even the ‘elite’ age groupers!! If you don’t believe it, then you have you left head so far up your arse, just like you did about Lance. He’s the best ever, period end of story, because they still cheat...FROOME, Geraint, ALL OF THEM...and if you don’t believe it, once again, I say you have your head up your arse!! #icarus!

"Nope, he has no regret, other than getting caught and he doesn't see he did way more than the other guys of his era."

And how is that different to any other doper of his era? Indeed and other doper full stop! Seems to me that Lance is being penalised more for his arrogance and abhorrent behaviour than his doping.


If we've learnt nothing else from all this doping over the years it is that it is not old, it hasn't stopped, people are still and will continue to look for a chemically enhanced performance edge.

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Trust me I’m a doctor!
Well, I have a PhD :-)

Ok I’m with you...so where does that leave you on Lance? I find it interesting that people appear to get more upset that he was a doper but care less that he was an asshole. Where are you?

Ahhhhh and yet here you are. Commenting on a thread about a man you wish would go away. I find this hypocrisy amusing.

So how exactly are they cheating? And if you know then why haven't you reported the fact to the relevant authorities?

Seriously? I need to answer that? George H never got caught, he confessed. Most never get caught...it’s their livelihood we are talking about...they will do what they need to in order to feed their families...it’s not even with my time to respond. It’s common sense. The age groupers are cheating because of ego, they want to say they’re the best...it’s a fact of life!!! Get over it. #icarus.

"Nope, he has no regret, other than getting caught and he doesn't see he did way more than the other guys of his era."

Lance did not do way more than the others. He was in a unique position that all he had to do was test his form a couple of times pre-Tour, win the Tour, and call it a season. Compare that to someone like Tyler the year he was caught; he was full-on doped to the gills for the Ardennees, the pre-Tour races, the Tour, the Olympics, and the Vuelta. On top of that I know from clients of Dr. Ferrari that Ferrari was very conservative; he advised to take only what worked and as little of that as possible. Compared to teams like Liberty-Seguros who were loading their riders up with dozens of drugs, everything that anyone thought might have a remote chance of making a difference, and as much of those as possible.

Yes, I guess you are right about the hypocrisy. I guess I might convince others their penalty should be shunning. Did not work with you, but am glad I made you smile.

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Team Zoot So Cal

Doping wise you might be right, but Lance also committed several other crimes beyond doping:

Bribery (sysmex and other "donations")
Intimidation (Lemond, Andreu, Hamilton etc)
Libel (Lemond, Emma O'Reilly)
Perjury (SCA/Tailwind case)

I can keep going...

It was never just about the doping.